47: Honoring Your Thresholds as a Black HSP
With Dr. Lana Holmes, Psy.D., LCP
Have you been misunderstood and put into a box? In this episode, I talk with Lana Holmes, Psy.D., LCP about the complexities of being highly sensitive and black as well as:
• Honoring your thresholds even if others misinterpret resting as laziness
• Embracing all parts of who you are and loving your sensitivity
• Untangling stereotypes to recognize other people for who they truly are
• How to uplift and include all members of our HSP community
Dr. Lana is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist at the Center for Inclusive Therapy + Wellness. She's passionate about providing therapy that welcomes and celebrates marginalized, oppressed, and stigmatized communities. Her areas of clinical interest and expertise include: the intersection between mental health and spirituality, issues pertaining to BDSM, kink, and ethical non-monogamy; issues pertaining to BIPOC individuals, issues pertaining to LGBTQIA2S+ folx, trauma across the lifespan, life transitions, anxiety disorders, and depressive disorders. She currently has openings for online individual and couples therapy.
Keep in touch with Dr. Lana:
• Website: https://www.inclusivetherapywellness.com/lana
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lana-holmes-psy-d-348972186
• Email: inclusivetherapywellness@gmail.com
Resources Mentioned:
• Kink and Clinical Practice 101 Training: https://www.touchstoneinstitute.org/trainings/kink-and-clinical-practice-101-(self-paced)
• Sacred Rest by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781478921684
• Nap Ministry: https://thenapministry.wordpress.com
Thanks for listening!
You can also follow "SensitiveStrengths" for behind-the-scenes content plus more educational and inspirational HSP resources:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Dr. Lana Holmes: 0:00
It's important within the broader HSP community for there to be these ongoing conversations about the cultural complexities of it. That way it's not just the we're all HSPs, all of our experiences are precisely the same, and it's like we do have common experiences and shared traits, but then also there's some nuance to it that needs to be addressed.
April Snow: 0:26
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP, without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Dr Lana Holmes about honoring your limits, even if others misinterpret you, resting as laziness, embracing all parts of who you are and loving your sensitivity and the complexities of being highly sensitive and Black.
April Snow: 1:06
Lana is a licensed clinical psychologist at the Center for Inclusive Therapy and Wellness. She's passionate about providing therapy that welcomes and celebrates marginalized, oppressed and stigmatized communities. Her areas of clinical interest and expertise include the intersection between mental health and spirituality, issues pertaining to BDSM, kink and ethical non-monogamy. Issues pertaining to BIPOC individuals and LGBTQIA2S plus folks, trauma across the lifespan, life transitions, anxiety disorders and depressive disorders. She currently has openings for online individual and couples therapy For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. Hi, dr Lana, it's so nice to have you here today.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 2:34
Thank you, it's a pleasure April.
April Snow: 2:36
Yeah, thank you. I'm wondering if we could start off by hearing your HSP discovery story how and when you realized that you're a highly sensitive person story how and when you realize that you're a highly sensitive person.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 2:51
Oh, I would say that's been a work in progress. So I would think I mean ever since early childhood I was aware of I was sensitive. I was called sensitive particularly because I felt emotions very strongly. Also, I could detect other people's emotions very easily and it would just stay with me. So there would be like scenes from a movie or a news story and something that other people could just shake off and be like, oh, you know. Well, we feel a certain type of way about this, but you know, we're gonna continue to go on the rest of the day. I would be like, uh, and, and it would just stay with me. But I think, like the term or the phrase highly sensitive person is something that I only became aware of more recently and understanding that it's more neurological in nature, more temperament based, and that it's not just something that, like you need to overcome or outgrow.
April Snow: 3:41
Yes, exactly, it's so relatable because it does feel that way, doesn't it? When we're different from other people. It's like I just have to get through this and change this about myself. But, as you're saying, it was always there.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 3:55
Yeah, it was always there. But I think, listening to the stories of other people who identify as HSPs, it's that sense of like learning how to adapt, or really being forced or pressured to adapt, because I think for me, I very clearly could detect from other people or even was just straight out said of like you know, yes, you're sensitive and there's nothing wrong with that, but the world is tough and rough and you need to find a way to steel yourself against that, because how are you going to survive? How are you need to find a way to steel yourself against that? Because how are you going to survive, how are you going to function and I understand what people mean by that, because you do need to find ways to regulate right.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 4:32
You need to find ways to soothe and to ground yourself but, at the same time, all of these really good qualities that I associated with being sensitive, being very caring, being very loving, being very compassionate, being very loving, being very compassionate it kind of felt like that wasn't really being highlighted and it was just kind of like you just need to get rid of all of that.
April Snow: 4:52
All the good parts.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 4:59
Right, or I don't think even people were recognizing that asking anyone to be less sensitive means you're kind of asking them to get rid of the good parts.
April Snow: 5:03
That's true, because we can't pick, I think oftentimes we don't recognize what our sensitivity does bring to the table for ourselves and others. And people are saying, yeah, get rid of this part, don't be so emotional or don't be so impacted, but also then we lose our empathy and our attention to detail and all the parts get thrown out. We can't choose.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 5:25
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow: 5:26
Yeah, I'm wondering just to add another layer to this. You know, what has it been like being a highly sensitive Black woman? Is that impacted that pressure to be tougher, because that's something I've heard from other folks, or to put the sensitivity aside, or is what has your been experience been like?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 5:47
put the sensitivity aside, or is what has your been experience been like? Yeah, I think the personal experience has been in a number of ways. I have been told that like I don't fit this stereotypical idea of what people have when they think about a black woman, both when within and outside of my community, right, even though there are so many Black people and particularly Black cis women just like me. At the same time, it's been like there's something unusual about you in terms of your temperament or in terms of your interests, or in terms of like, how you move through the world.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 6:18
And I think, when it comes to sensitivity, which you and your audience is probably familiar with as a strong Black woman, trope of Black women need to be indomitable. Black women need to just face whatever challenge, but also tied into that, because I'm not just an HSP, I'm an introvert. It's like this expectation or this assumption that Black women are always extroverted and always are going to be out in center and are always going to make their voices heard, no matter what. And so me being a very shy, delicate, gentle Black girl, particularly when you know, just coming into awareness about being very sensitive, it was a sense of like who are you. That's not what you're supposed to be as a Black female. So there's that, but then also there's this idea, particularly of like. A part of the stereotype is that Black women can handle an inordinate amount of pain, and we've seen the research on this.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 7:17
Like particularly in the medical profession how there still is a lingering assumption that Black people, including Black women, have literally thicker skin, or that they have a higher pain threshold, or that we have a higher pain threshold rather.
April Snow: 7:31
And.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 7:32
I think what that translates to is if you're a very sensitive person and you can become easily overly stimulated, it can be hard to kind of explain to people of like A. In general, no one can handle an endless amount of pain or stress or anything, but especially if you are highly sensitive and you're being faced with stereotypes of like, we can throw anything at you and you should be fine. It's hard and exhausting to kind of constantly advocate for yourself and to constantly try to explain and I think one of the things that's been helpful about having more awareness in psychoeducation, about being a highly sensitive person, is that like it gives you something to try to let people know. Like hey, there's a certain threshold that I have and I am more than capable and willing to do the work. I'm more than capable to collaborate and help and be a part of the team and do what needs to be done to like benefit myself and others. But there's certain things where it's like I've hit the wall and we need to make adjustments that way I don't burn out.
April Snow: 8:38
Yes, you're human, right, you can only take so much. And, as you're talking about this pressure to be strong all the time, that hurts all black women first of all. But then, if you're highly sensitive, you're introverted, your need to sacrifice yourself even further and the expectations become more harmful and unreasonable. And you brought up an interesting point, another layer, which is that in that strength, you also have to be extroverted. You have to be on all the time, ready for everything that is so unreasonable, so harmful. And so then there's all these layers of you that are okay. Not okay to be introverted, it's not okay to be sensitive.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 9:21
And you you said you hit that threshold sooner than other people, but then I'm subjected to including people that are marginalized, oppressed and stigmatized, including Black women and femmes then it creates this sense of like I don't matter and I am at the behest of other people, like I am just this thing that is here to serve other people. And you know the consequences. Because we know that when we look at any of the longstanding research on stress, including race-based stress, acculturative stress, like all of these different things, both in general and how it relates to various forms of discrimination and cultural-based issues in general, stress, especially prolonged and chronic and unrelenting, has a deleterious effect on mental and physical health and I've definitely felt that I've definitely had times where I've been pushed to the brink and still having to face with people not understanding it or it being misconstrued as like laziness or being difficult or
Dr. Lana Holmes: 10:45
not wanting to be a team player and not wanting to contribute enough, and it's like no, and so almost it can kind of make you second guess yourself where you're just like. Is it really true? And of course it's not, because if you can point to factual information, it's like I am putting in the effort and I am putting in the work and I am contributing, and you're continually met with no, you need to bleed yourself more. It just starts to get to a point where you realize, oh no, it's not a matter of lack of effort, it's a matter of, like, lack of care from the outside.
April Snow: 11:15
Exactly. Oh, and you said bleed yourself even more, Like you're already bleeding and yet no one is recognizing that. Like, how much more do I have to suffer without being called lazy or difficult or you know all the other things that you hear is dehumanizing? Right? You're like an object, If you're comfortable sharing. Does that messaging come from people in your personal life? Is that more from outside, or both from?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 11:44
people in your personal life. Is that more from outside or both? I would say it predominantly that messaging of being lazy, difficult, not being a team player, not collaborating, has come from predominantly white spaces and institutions.
April Snow: 11:56
For sure.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 11:57
Even and this is also the messed up part it's also come from individuals and institutions that have said like we are inclusive, we are welcoming and we are understanding, and so that's been a pain point. But I think also I mean as so many black women and scholars and activists and leaders and, just you know, people in general and femmes as well black femmes have saying we've always been the backbone of our community. And so there's always been this expectation of do the most for your family, for your friends, for your partners for your community members for the issues that directly affect you.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 12:37
And yet when black women and femmes step up and say like we are exhausted, people will feel like but and I mean there sometimes will be that sense of like you're being selfish or you are not down for the cause. If you are saying I need a break, I need rest. I need help. I can't do this all by myself on a nonstop basis.
April Snow: 12:59
Right. So even from those quote unquote safe spaces, you're still getting those messages. You're still getting pressured to push yourself and sacrifice yourself and not being heard and saying like I've done enough, I'm at my limit, I'm at my limit, and I think particularly we're talking about women.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 13:19
And femmes.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 13:20
It's not just about anti-black racism, it's also about misogynoir and race-based sexism, and this not only relates again to Black cisgender women, but Black trans women and Black femmes who, again, there's so much that's expected of you and that's so much little that's given back, so much little that's given back. And so it can be a very painful experience, but also it's kind of like a catch 22. Because you know that if you stop, no one is necessarily going to come to your aid and that if nobody else cares about your life and your humanity, you have to. But at the same time it can be a very heartbreaking, disappointing and lonely and infuriating, frankly, experience to be like. I feel like I'm the mascot or the token to try to make everybody else's dreams and aspirations come true to try to save the day.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 14:13
And yet when it's like could you please, like I'm asking practically and nicely in plain language to just help people, just being like don't feel like it.
April Snow: 14:24
I don't know.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 14:26
Maybe you should just work harder, maybe you should sacrifice a bit more, maybe you should rearrange your life and so yeah, it's a hard experience.
April Snow: 14:35
Oh, it's terribly. I mean terribly hard. I can obviously. I haven't lived that, but I can just imagine just when you're constantly scraping the bottom of the barrel and it's never enough. And you said I'm saying it in plain language, I'm being direct, I'm advocating for myself All hard things to do as an HSP, and yet you know so often that still isn't enough. It's still not being heard. You're just still expected to give more and more and more and more.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 15:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, expected to give more and more and more and more.
April Snow: 15:05
Yeah, yeah, you mentioned culture. I'm wondering, you know we're kind of talking about the culture with which HSPs live in, and especially HSPs of color. How does that influence being an HSP if we could say more about that?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 15:18
I think, yeah, I mean it ties into some of what we already spoke to. But I think, like in terms of these assumptions and stereotypes and expectations that people can have based on your race? Or the culture of origin that you come from. I think that within the African-American community in particular, and more broadly across the African diaspora, there's this kind of expectation of black women coming in to fill the breach and black women stepping up to fulfill so many roles and duties within the community and not necessarily being fully respected or appreciated or credited or compensated for that, but it's just the expectation you're going to do this, even if it involves a great deal of suffering and little support.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 16:07
You know now, there's always been, when you look at the history of Black women and femmes who have stepped up to be like, hey, you know we are trying to provide support or solve this problem or address this like issue that affects us all Of there being other people usually particularly other Black women and femmes stepping up and going like, yes, we will help you, but it's not necessarily as consistent and long lasting as is needed or hoped for.
April Snow: 16:39
You know.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 16:39
so it's kind of like that twist, but I think also when we look at the effects and the ravages of anti-Black racism, misogynoir, look at the effects and the ravages of anti-Black racism, misogynoir, trans misogynoir, race-based sexism.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 16:54
I think there has been this ethos within the African-American community in particular, and again across the African diaspora of like look, realistically speaking, you can't rely on other people to come to your aid because history has shown they're not necessarily going to come in and help in the way that they may say that they are in the way that's needed, and so you have to toughen yourself up. I mean, I heard the language early on in my life of like you got to. You know, life is tough. You got to prepare yourself for that. And you have to make sure that you are able to defend yourself, but also fight back when necessary. And that's practical, that's real.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 17:38
But then also, I think it kind of leaves that question of even though, yes, the evils of various forms of oppression exist and we can't blanket over that or minimize it, but always leaves this question, especially for all of us. But like who are subjected to oppression, but especially if you also are very sensitive, like where is there space for joy, for pleasure, for peace, to just know that you're safe and to just know also that you could be your full self and not try to be this model of what people want you to be.
April Snow: 18:15
Yeah, you're constantly being put in such a tiny box, an impossible box, and you're saying like you have to do it all, you have to kind of hold everything on your own shoulders. And there's this message in the wider HSP community like ask for help, lean on others, right, kind of take some things off, but if you're a black woman who's an HSP, that's not an option, or at least that's not what people are going to step in and support. So you're out here on your own dealing with all of all the things, right, right, that seems impossible. All of all the things right, that seems impossible.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 18:50
No, I mean, it's one of those things where it's like at least in my experience it's been there are definitely people, including white people, who identify as being sensitive, whether it's as an HSP or it's associated with neurodiversity, et cetera who've definitely been very compassionate and loving and supportive and have continued to like add support.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 19:10
But you know there also have been people, regardless of their temperament or personality or their neurotype, who have not done that, and so but I think it's important, like if people hear this right and go like, well, that's not right, the antidote is to step in and to heed the. This is recording on January 28th 2025. And we are in an especially taxing period if you are a black woman or femme, or if you belong to any of the marginalized, oppressed or stigmatized community.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 20:00
So I would also say it's not just a matter of asking HSPs who are marginalized to step up and just ask for help and advocate for yourself but like check in, check in with folks, don't just because when you're already being hit on multiple sides and then you're being told, well, you always have to do and yes, like nobody should be a mind reader or be expected to be that, and that's not what I'm asking for, but I'm saying like as a matter of care, as a matter of compassion, be like, let me see how you're doing, and not just once in a while, but consistently Right, exactly Right.
April Snow: 20:36
That's the piece. Right. Let's be allies and community members over time, not just one and done.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 20:43
Right, oh something big is happening. I'll check in with this one friend who I haven't talked with in years, but then I forget about them again, or your neighbor or whoever. It is a little spicy, but it's hard not to be spicy. Yeah.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 21:11
It's hard not to be spicy right now, but I think of it's a time where, especially if you know it shouldn't take a lot of handholding and this is what I mean by that is like it is exhausting, especially if you've already had conversations and presented research and firsthand accounts and various pieces of literature, whether it be scholarly books and research or you know historical accounts of like. Let me give you the entire history of you know racism and misogynoir and how it intersects with other forms of oppression, and let me tell you about my own firsthand experiences and accounts. And then to still see people kind of act like they have amnesia and that they forgot.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 21:57
And it's kind of at this point where it's like it's not that you don't know.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 22:05
And so you need to figure out what it is that, even if you have the knowledge and even if you say that you love and care about people who are vulnerable, that you're still not fully doing all of the actions that are necessary and I think one of the things, too, about being an HSP that I find is that sometimes people assume that HSP's are like pushovers or oh, you know, you can never be angry because you're too gentle and delicate and care about people. And it's like sweetie if you overstimulate somebody enough and take them for granted enough that anger will come out, and I think it's one of those times where it's like do HSPs have a tremendous wealth of love and care and compassion for?
April Snow: 22:53
people.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 22:53
Yes, does that motivate us to action? Yes, does that? Motivate us to also have a certain level of patience and understanding for people's flaws and fallibility Absolutely, but also there are some things that if you do mess up, it's important for that to be addressed so that there can be correction and improvement.
April Snow: 23:15
Yes.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 23:16
And if people get mad about it, it's valid.
April Snow: 23:20
Yes, well, it's a natural survival response. If you take, take, take and you push, push, push, that's threatening. You take, take, take and you push, push, push, that's threatening. My nervous system is going to react to that with anger, with aggression, whatever it is, to save myself. It just seems like there's a lot of parallels between being a sensitive person and a black woman who's constantly like, being pulled on, like give me more of this, give me more of that. Either give me more strength and toughness, or give me more of your empathy, caregiving, whatever it is Like.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 23:50
no you hit a limit. Yeah, you do hit a limit and I think it's just like and particularly I think it's important within the broader HSP community for there to be these ongoing conversations about the cultural complexities of it.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 24:03
Yeah, that way it's not just the. We're all HSPs, all of our experiences are precisely the same and it's like we do have common experiences and shared traits, but then also there's some nuance to it that needs to be addressed and it's not being addressed to be because, I think also especially now, I think sometimes when people talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, talk about combating systems of oppression, it's misconstrued as being combative or punitive and it's like it's not, that it's pointing out a problem so that it can be resolved and there can be improvements, there can be solutions, rather than it just being like this large, gaping wound that continues to rot and poison everybody.
April Snow: 24:50
Exactly. Well said, Because if we say which I firmly believe HSP spaces are often white spaces, let's be real. I've been in a lot of HSP spaces. 99% of people are white cis. So when we point out these spaces need more work to be inclusive, that's not pointing fingers at someone just saying like hey, we have a universal problem in our HSP community. How can we solve it? Because there are HSPs of all colors, genders, sexes, races, so let's bring them in, because we do have those overlaps. We also have those differences, and like let's make space for everybody. So I'm really happy we're having conversations like this.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 25:28
This is how we start yes, and I think I would also add for me at least the way that I conceptualize like any kind of cultural differences, whether it be about race and ethnicity, gender identity, sexual orientation, religious or spiritual affiliation the list goes on is the issue is when people try to calibrate the differences as if they're ranked on the level of superiority or inferiority, and instead of just appreciating the differences.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 25:58
So when I see people being like, but we shouldn't talk about any of these differences, or the other extreme that we're all hopefully trying to fight against is like no, no, there are just some people that are better immersed than others is being able to go like no, we have differences, but that doesn't mean that we should rank them as if there are certain things that are inherently inferior or superior, but just being like we have differences.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 26:24
Can we understand and appreciate those differences, but also, can we see people for the multifaceted, complex people that they are, instead of trying to oversimplify them, instead of trying to generalize them and instead?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 26:38
of trying to put them in very rigid categories of things is that, even though the experience of being Black or a Black woman and femme is different in a number of ways from being HSP, what my hope would be is that HSPs would relate to that sense of I can understand what it feels like to be different and to be told that this difference is somehow weak or inferior or somehow a liability or somehow something that is going to need to be fundamentally changed, if it can be changed at all.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 27:20
And be able to go like, okay, it's not exactly the same as being a racial, ethnic minority, but can I take that and can that inspire me to be like, oh yeah, I should have this level of investment. Can I use this empathy that comes with being an HSP to inspire me to be able to form meaningful relationships with other people in the HSP community that maybe aren't often seen or heard? Because to me, I think also at this point in my life, I'm not just interested in people kind of doing this.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 27:51
I see that a lot of social justice work or social change work seems to focus a lot on intellectualization of people just kind of going like I'm collecting data and then I am regurgitating it and that's my work and it's like I think collecting, disseminating information is powerful and we have so many examples of it. But it's one part of this like multifaceted thing and I think it's important for people to focus on relationship building. So, in addition to being an HSP like I, am an Air Force brat. I was born in Germany and spent the first three years of my life there. Our family got to travel and live in different places around the world and I was exposed, you know, to different cultures at a very early age and I was encouraged to right Like I was blessed that I had a family that did allow me to form relationships with people, because there are some people who don't, especially some white people who don't have that in their family.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 28:46
Also, I know that I was blessed to be in spaces that were diverse, because there were some people who they were like. I was born and raised in a place that was predominantly just people like me, and it wasn't until much later in my life I even have opportunity to be around a bunch of different people. So I know that. But I think what was very important about that is learning about different people's experiences, not just in the context of privilege or oppression, but like oh, this is the history of our people, this is the history of our nations, this is the history of our heritage and our customs. It really gave me appreciation for people, but also culture and also the importance of social justice and change, and so to me it's important for people to have that visceral experience of caring, not just because you went to a workshop, but caring because you know people from various communities and you love them.
April Snow: 29:42
Yes, make those connections, build those relationships, and that's how we shift everything really person to person. You talked about how just the overlaps between being Black, being sensitive and obviously we can't change either one of those things about ourselves Sensitivity is easier to mask. Obviously, you can't mask the color of your skin, but you could push away your sensitivity, right, you could push it down, try to deny it. Do your best to be what's expected of you. You know the strong Black woman who just does everything for everybody, which is not sustainable, but you could try. How do you work with that denial, though? If you're feeling like my sensitivity isn't okay, can we soften that at all? I know that's a big question.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 30:29
No, it is.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 30:30
It's hard because I think for me coming to terms with being like a highly sensitive person, it took a while, like I'm, you know, I'm significantly into my adulthood and even though I knew it was sensitive, there was a lot of shame around it because I think there were so many experiences where it was kind of seen as an inconvenience, where it's like you need to stop being so sensitive, stop crying, stop you know, like you can't take in all of this emotion and so you learn how to mask, to survive, but also try to fit, like it's more than just fitting in, but to try to like not constantly be subjected to this criticism that you being sensitive is bad and you just need to bottle that up.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 31:15
So I think it's a journey and I think, when a lot of time and I ever think about any aspect of a person's identity or sense of selfhood or being, I think sometimes there's this immediate pressure to go from like I'm kind of confused about who I am and trying to figure it out to like I understand exactly who I am and I feel amazing and I got the banner and F anybody who doesn't get on board and I think I wanted to say if you're someone who you're like, I understand who I am, but I still have times where I don't feel comfortable with it.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 31:51
I still have times where maybe even I secretly wish that I wasn't as sensitive or I could flip it off and on that that's. Ok, and that that doesn't make you any less of a sensitive person.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 32:03
That doesn't mean that you are bringing that down the HSP community or anything like that, like you know, because I think the journey to finding out who you are and being able to accept that is a very personal one and I think it's important to know that, like it's normal to have times where you feel kind of, where you vacillate in terms of, like, the degrees of feeling comfortable and fully grounded and you are to sometimes just being like why like why? Out of all the things that I could have added to my plate in life. This is here, you know exactly.
April Snow: 32:44
I appreciate that permission to be imperfect with your relationship to your sensitivity, where, yeah, some days you're going to celebrate it, other days you're going to dread it, and that is to be expected. There are difficult parts of this trait and there are really positive parts, and it can depend who you're with, how you're seeing it. You just love external influence and you don't always have to be in perfect harmony with it. That's okay, yeah.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 33:11
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow: 33:12
As we start to maybe lean into the embracing part. I know you've talked about how that can be empowering, that can be liberating. Can you help me make that connection? How does that unfold, or how has it unfolded for you, acceptance to kind of inner peace and liberation?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 33:30
Yeah, or how has it unfolded for you? Acceptance to kind of inner peace and liberation? Yeah, I think about it in terms of inner peace and liberation. I think about so many of us, as people in general are made to feel like you will only be loved, you will only be accepted, you will only be worthy if you can act, speak, appear in a certain way for the approval of others, for the approval of community members, for the approval of society at large. And so I think when you're able to say this is who I am and there is no shame in it, there's nothing about it that is disgusting or bad or wrong, that that's liberating because you're reclaiming your humanity. But I think it's even more particular like you belong to a marginalized, oppressed or stigmatized community, particularly talking about being a Black woman, slash femme. It is liberating in the sense of you're saying like I am a human being and that, regardless of whatever misinformation that you got about what you think a Black woman or femme should be like, it's like. This is one of the many examples of being a black woman and femme and I don't have to fit into a checklist, I don't have to fit into a box. And if you were out here tripping because you're like I don't know how to reconcile this, that's your issue. But it's like. This is who I am and there's so many people like me and it's fine, and I am going to be that way because I can't be anything else.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 34:55
Because the process of trying to be someone else is painful and and and eventually it can cause significant emotional and psychological and even physiological harm when you're trying to adopt a persona constantly. And so it's freeing and it's liberating to actually return to who you are. Go with some of the shame I had as a kid of some of the like why can't I be like other people? The loneliness, the sense of being set apart and being able to go, oh, you know, like even though I think inevitably, if there are negative things that are part of your life story, you can't put a smiley face on it. But I think being able to look back and go like, oh, these things that previously had a negative association I'm able to reclaim and go like actually, this was always a nice thing about myself.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 35:53
And I can say now, as an adult, that I really like this about myself and that this has always been a positive trait for me. It's good, it's empowering.
April Snow: 36:01
So empowering to say you know I'm human, this is who I am, there's nothing wrong with it. And you said you know it's not disgusting. Which is like, oh yeah, let's really take a look. Why do I think this is a problem? It's okay to be empathetic, to be emotional, to be sensitive, to be strong and all of that. That's beautiful. There's actually nothing wrong with it, innately. So why are we demonizing it so much? There's actually nothing wrong with it innately so why are we demonizing it so much?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 36:29
Right and it relates to it reminds me of a lot of the interventions, like cognitive behavioral therapy, because cognitive behavioral therapy focuses so much on like where are the facts? Instead of just taking the thoughts or the emotional responses that you use to guide yourself through life at face value, it's like where did it come from? Did it come from a valid source? And is it factual? Is it matching the reality and the accurate information that you have available? But, then also is it helping you?
April Snow: 37:00
You know? Yeah, exactly yeah, check it out. Is it factual, is it real? And is it factual, is it real and is it helpful? I think those are two great questions to ask when you're having these thoughts about yourself, and just to bring it back to community. When we're around others who are like us, who support us for me at least, a lot of that shame has floated away, like, oh, here's someone else like me, I'm okay. Yeah, those messages are not real. I'm accepted here, I'm appreciated, I can be myself here, so important. Well, lana, anything else before we start to wrap up, anything we didn't get to that you thought was important to share today?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 37:41
No, I think, like we covered all of that. I think the one thing or the one phrase that comes into my mind, I feel compelled to share, is love yourself. And I know we hear a lot of these things like there's so many means, or, you know, you and me are old enough to remember bumper stickers A lot of those you know and sloganeering, or even those like hang in there, baby, and other inspirational posters that were hung all over our schools.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 38:07
I know that sometimes those phrases have been used ad nauseum, where people are like does it even mean anything anymore? But really love yourself, and the importance of that is like. The world is hard enough. Life, especially right now. It's hard enough that hating yourself is corrosive, and so it is important to find a way to love yourself. It is important to find a way to make peace with yourself.
April Snow: 38:33
Yeah, I personally see that as an act of defiance in our culture Like I'm going to find joy, I'm going to self love all of it. How can we counteract what we're seeing and create more joy and safety and community? Yeah, that's been my anchor in all this.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 38:51
Yeah, oh no. Definitely, I've definitely been leaning on the works of people like Trisha Hersey with the.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 38:57
NAP ministry, like Restless Resistance that's been like so transformative for me, as well as the book I'm currently in the middle of by Dr Sandra Dalton Smith called Sacred Rest, and then also just the work of Audre Lorde that focused on like taking care of oneself as an act of political resistance and so again drawing back to culture of how all of these Black women have been just continuing to lead the cause, you know, not just for other black women and femmes but also for hopefully all people to just be like really embrace the sanctity of rest, really embrace the sanctity of again making peace with who you are, you know, and not just being an intellectual thing, but also being something that you can fill in your body and in your soul you have so much gratitude to give to black women, I mean, have given us so much and I'll definitely be sure to share those resources in the show notes for folks, and because rest is resistance and we need more of that.
April Snow: 40:03
Especially women of color deserve it the most, or need it the most. Also deserve it, yeah, yeah. Any other thoughts?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 40:11
oh yeah, and I think like to that point, because one of the things I look at is looking at it like even though these are resources that were definitely designed by black women for black women, um, and it's important to give credit you know, we're credited to do for that.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 40:25
My hope is that also other communities will be able to take inspiration from this and that we all can be able to join forces and work together around it of your lives. It's important for all of us to work together to dismantle systems of repression. I know we're at the end, but, like to me at least, one of the things I look at is like systems of repression also hurt privileged people in different senses as well, because when we look at diversity and equity and inclusion research, it's shown that everybody, including people from dominant or privileged groups, benefit when there are more people on staff in schools and in medical spaces that are diverse, and so I know sometimes when we talk about this, I can see how people can be intimidated and go like oh, I feel like this isn't for me because I'm not a Black woman or femme, or I feel like this isn't something I should be taking part in, and it's like we're all interconnected, right.
April Snow: 41:30
We're all impacted by each other. I think our yeah, our biggest problem is that we're segregating and dividing so much. We've lost that sense of humanity and to see people and like we all need each other.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 41:43
Right, let's just come together here right, we all need each other, and you's just come together here. Right, we all need each other and you know it might.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 41:48
the answers might not be simple, and it might not be something where it's like oh, I just learned this concept and that's it. But I think it's important again for people to rediscover what it's like to have meaningful relationships with people that embrace all of who we are, and not just the negative, harmful bits, but also the fun bits. Like you and me didn't even get into our favorite bands today, so that's true.
April Snow: 42:15
Follow up that's true. There's so much more to say. Oh, alana, thank you so much for this beautiful conversation. It's such an important one to have right now always, but especially right now and in addition to those helpful resources you shared, I'll be sure to include ways for folks to get in contact with you your website, your email. You also have some continuing education resources for therapists and mental health providers. Yeah, before we go, though, I'm wondering if you could share just a little bit more about working with you for folks who are interested?
Dr. Lana Holmes: 42:47
yeah, no, it'd be my pleasure. So I am a licensed clinical psychologist. I'm based in the state of georgia, but I also have a sci-pak licensure for folks who reside in all sci-pak member states, and the practice that I'm a part of is the center for inclusive therapy and wellness practice, and so I see folks in individual and couples teletherapy, so that would be online for folks who are not aware about the term teletherapy. And, yeah, if you go to the link that's provided in the show notes, you can feel free to book a session with me. A lot of my work focuses on, you know, trauma and stress-related disorders depressive disorders, anxiety disorders.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 43:26
Also working with various marginalized, oppressed and stigmatized communities it's shocker, right Like after this hour so that not only includes women and femmes, but also members of the queer community, bipoc folks, members of the BSM and kink communities, members of the ethical non-monogamy community, but also I love working around people in the intersections of myself and spirituality, life change and transformation issues, but also around grief and loss. So, yeah, there's a lot of really rich, rewarding work that I enjoy doing with people there. And then with the Touchstone Institute, which is a really great continuing education organization Institute, which is a really great continuing education organization, I have a kink and clinical practice 101 continuing education course that's available online and self-paced. It was designed specifically for licensed mental health professionals, but also trainees in the mental health field, who perhaps have heard about BDSM and kink, but they're still really green to it and want to know more about effectively working with these populations, so it was designed to be a nice introductory overview for people.
April Snow: 44:31
Beautiful. I love it. You're just creating so much space for folks in your practice and in the work that you do and, again, just really appreciate you sharing with us today.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 44:41
Yeah, it's really been such a pleasure and thank you, april of like when I found out about your work, and not just with this podcast. But everything that you're doing in terms of advocating for sensitivity. It just delighted my heart. I was like this is so nice. I was like I feel so warm and cozy and I'm so happy. And again, I remember, like the blog post that you said about going to a concert, I think at Red Rocks, and remembering the band and the experience and crying I was like.
April Snow: 45:13
I've had that experience too. I know we definitely need to talk about our favorite bands at some point, because music is a big part of my life. It's so emotional yeah.
Dr. Lana Holmes: 45:20
Me too.
April Snow: 45:21
Thank you so much, you're welcome, thank you.
April Snow: 45:32
Thanks so much for joining me and Lana for today's conversation. What I hope you're taking away is that there's nothing wrong with being more sensitive and that it's okay to honor your thresholds, whoever you are. If you're interested in working with Dr Lana, go to inclusivetherapywellnesscom. Slash Lana L-A-N-A or head to the show notes for more resources. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated conversations, reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSP resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
