09: Finding Balance as a Sensitive Empath
With Mishka Clavijo Kimball, LMFT
Do you feel others emotions as deeply as your own? In this episode, I talk with Mishka Clavijo Kimball, LMFT about how to care for yourself as an empath and:
• Growing up sensitive as the eldest in a latino family and how family roles impact your experience as an HSP
• Learning to provide support in a balanced way and not automatically jumping in to rescue others
• How to care for yourself more and not love others too much at your own expense
• Differences, myths, and strengths of HSPs and empaths
• Self-care practices that allow you to reconnect to yourself and soothe overwhelm
• Practices for setting physical and energetic boundaries, restoring energy through connection with nature and water, ancestral healing, salsa dancing, mindfulness, yoga, and journaling
Mishka is a Latina Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Transformational Coach with over 10 years of experience in the field of mental health. She specializes in helping Empaths and HSPs live a life of balance and peace. Mishka is the author of The Empath’s Self-Care Journal and has worked with hundreds of clients helping them heal and transform their lives. Mishka has a private practice based in Los Angeles, where she offers virtual therapy services for clients on a 1:1 basis.
Keep in touch with Mishka:
• Website: https://www.sensibilidadcounseling.com
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sensibilidadcounseling
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensibilidadcounseling
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mishka-clavijo-kimball-m-s-lmft-45601649
Resources Mentioned:
• Finding Peace and Balance: A 6-week course for Empaths who want to heal from emotional overwhelm and learn to protect their energy. https://www.sensibilidadcounseling.com/online-course-for-sensitives
• The Empath’s Self-Care Journal: https://www.sensibilidadcounseling.com/empathselfcareshop/p/style-01-ej5na-7klle
• The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780143127741
• Find Your Strength HSP Workbook by April Snow: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781577153009
• Highly Sensitive Therapist List: https://hsperson.com/therapists/seeking-an-hsp-knowledgeable-therapist
• HeartMath Institute: https://www.heartmath.org
Thanks for listening!
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 0:00
Before I knew that I was an empath, I was feeling all these different emotions and I just didn't understand where are they coming from. Why am I feeling like this? Now I know a lot of those emotions that I was feeling were not mine. It's so important that we start teaching children about emotional intelligence, about emotion regulation, about boundaries. Then that's going to make a huge difference.
April Snow: 0:30
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Mishka Clavijo-Kimball about how to care for yourself as a highly sensitive empath, not jumping in to rescue others at your own expense, and how family roles can impact you as an HSP. Mishka is a Latina, licensed marriage and family therapist and a transformational coach with over 10 years of experience in the field of mental health. She specializes in helping empaths and HSPs live a life of balance and peace. Mishka is also the author of the Empaths Self-Care Journal and has worked with hundreds of clients, helping them heal and transform their lives. Mishka has a private practice based in Los Angeles, california, where she offers virtual therapy services for clients on a one-to-one basis.
April Snow: 1:40
For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. So, mishka, you share on your website that you grew up as an empath, a sensitive kid in Central America and because of that, you had some struggles that you went through. How has your relationship with your sensitivity shifted over the years?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 2:41
I love that question because, oh my gosh, it's shifted so much. And what helped it shift was the realization that I was actually a highly sensitive person and an empath. And once I realized that everything made sense, because when I grew up, growing up in Central America, being in a Latino family, being a sensitive child, I had all these big emotions and felt everything, and it was just not understood by my family or by my teachers or by others. Right, it's just not something that in our culture is embraced. Others, right, it is just not something that in our culture is embraced.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 3:30
And I would then be labeled as you're too sensitive and in Spanish it is muy sensible, or I would. I would get you're like a flower because you're so delicate, or you are like glass because you break so easily. So those were messages that I received and I internalized all of that and so I thought I'm broken, I have something wrong with me, I'm weak. Why can't I be like everybody else and fit in? Right, like I never fit in in my family because I'm the only one that's like this?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 4:01
And um, being the eldest daughter of six I'm the eldest daughter and I have five younger brothers there was a lot that fell on me and a lot of responsibility as well. That also contributed to me feeling anxiety, depression and just a lot of heavy, intense emotions that I didn't understand or didn't know how to regulate. Yeah, so that once I discovered that part of my identity, everything changed and now I see it as a gift. I don't see it as a weakness anymore and I've embraced it and I have learned the tools to better regulate myself, to accept myself and to utilize this as a strength and as a gift.
April Snow: 4:47
It's such a gift, isn't it? And it's also a journey to realizing that it's a gift and taking away those messages. It's such a palpable image, or a strong image, breaking like glass, being a flower, being so sensitive. And I've heard you talk about being the eldest daughter and I'm now really putting that together because I'm also the eldest. I have a smaller family, I have two brothers, but you're right, there is a certain sense of responsibility that comes with that and I hadn't realized that, but you're right, it does create more anxiety or emotion. Playing a role in the family and that's another piece we don't think about is we talk about culture, but also gender, sex, but also the role in the family. There's all these pieces that come together with how you experience sensitivity.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 5:36
Absolutely, and being the eldest, I felt overwhelmed, and already, as a sensitive person, we experience sensory overload, right, it's so easy for our nervous system to become overloaded, and so being the eldest, and sometimes just also being the one that everyone would come to right Because it's like they want advice or it's my responsibility to help them and so that created a lot of overwhelm, and that's where I also have to learn to set boundaries, to better balance how I spend my energy and to better take care of my own self and my own sensitivities.
April Snow: 6:19
It's true we are. Often we're the best person for people to come to. We're very emotionally attuned, especially if we'll talk about this in a bit If you identify as an empath, you really feel into what people are struggling with and, as the eldest, also your responsibility to take care of everyone. But it's incredibly overwhelming. How do you balance all of that? Maybe you never really were able to do that as a kid, but maybe now. How do you set those boundaries or balance that responsibility?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 6:49
Yes, I couldn't. As a kid, I didn't know. I didn't know what boundaries were. Until I went to grad school, I never heard the word self-care, until. I went to grad school, I didn't know what boundaries were, how to set them, and going through my own journey of healing was also how I discovered that part of my identity, of being an empath and, yes, a big part of it has been learning where I begin and end and where somebody else begins and ends.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 7:17
And that includes my siblings and that includes my parents, right, and that differentiation of we are each an individual and, yes, we are part of this system and we have a dynamic. But I needed to shift some of that dynamic, and the boundary started with me because I had fallen into the role of the caretaker, right, and so, immediately someone needs something, boom, I jump in, right. And so my first boundary to set was don't jump in. You take a step back and you allow the other person to do this on their own as much as they can. And that was also very humbling, because you learn they don't always need my help and I was just jumping in because that was what I was told to do but they're very capable and so you let them right.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 8:11
You don't jump in to rescue them and you provide support, but in a different way, in a healthier way. And so the boundaries start with me, but also with them, and sometimes being able to say, no, I can't right now, or no, this is not something that I'm able to do, or I'm not going to drop everything to help you, like maybe I used to do that, but now I don't do that anymore. I help you within my capacity and so I say no, or I say these are the parameters, this is what I can help you with within this capacity and within this limits.
April Snow: 8:47
Yes, exactly, I love that. Just taking a pause. This is something I've had to learn with my own brothers, because I kept wanting to play that role, that motherly role, and my therapist helped me realize they're adults, they can take care of themselves. It is very humble, right. Maybe I'm not needed as much as I think I am exactly. And it's okay, pause, let someone take care of themselves.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 9:11
And also, it's okay to say I don't have the capacity, correct or maybe even the interest at some points yeah, because sometimes, if it's something that will end up hurting us, we're doing something that is beyond our capacity, then it's going to be to our detriment, and so what that creates is just resentment, too and more pain, and then that can also hurt the relationship and the other person might not really understand why that is Exactly. There is such a thing of giving too much and sometimes maybe even loving too much, like we even within love, within caring, we have to have those limits can you give an example.
April Snow: 9:55
What do you mean by loving too much, loving too?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 9:59
much loving the other person too much maybe is a better way to say it and where you are neglecting your own self, where you're going just beyond, like you are going way beyond what your capacity is because you love that person so much and you want to please them or you want to make them happy, be, but it's a. It goes against your own, maybe just your capacity, against what you're willing or even able to do, but you're just doing it because you're people pleasing you're sacrificing yourself, you're giving them more at your own expense, right, and sometimes we don't.
April Snow: 10:42
We just don't have that in us to do. It ends up harming us and ultimately, the relationship. Yeah, it does. Yeah, so before we get too far, would you mind differentiating what is I know you identify as both highly sensitive and an empath Correct? Can you describe the difference between the two? We've alluded to it a bit, but could you say more?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 11:03
Yes, and I am so happy to be talking about this topic because I don't think we talk about it enough, right, we don't talk about it enough in the field of mental health and as therapists, and it's just something that's so important and, as many people know, highly sensitive people which is, I, I think, a term that has become more popular in recent years these are people who are very much in tune with their environment, right, and they have a sensitive neurological system. Right, we have sensory processing sensitivity, which means that our nervous system processes everything much deeper, stronger, and we're just so aware, right, and also reactive environment, and so that can lead to things like overwhelm and fatigue, burnout. That can lead to also us experiencing just stimuli at a higher level. Right, like perfumes, for example, can be so strong I can't stand perfume right, like I have to use something that's very subtle or I will get an instant headache. Or bright lights are very just blinding, very loud sounds, screaming music I know some people love screamo music. I can't do it.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 12:23
To me it's super overwhelming to my brain. So we have all this sensitivities, right, and the empath, which sometimes I think we use it interchangeably. We might say I'm an empath or I'm a highly sensitive person, and it's the same thing. There's a lot of similarities. It's not exactly the same, because the empath has other traits, other qualities, and so the empath shares sensory processing sensitivity. But the empath also has a hyper reactive mirror neural system. The mirror neurons are the neurons in our brain that might imitate something we see from somebody else, and we all have those and we all can pick up those. So when you smile, I might smile because I'm seeing you smile and that's normal, right, we all have that. But scientific studies have seen that the brain of the empath is hyperreactive, is hyperreactive, so the mirror neurons are just on overdrive and picking up everything from everyone around you.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 13:32
So the empath actually can feel and sense in their own body and soul another person's emotions and bodily sensations, physical pain, energy. And there is such thing as an electromagnetic field. It's been proven, right, it's been. If you go to heart math institute you can find so much research about the energy that the heart transmits, which is the strongest in our body.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 14:01
The electromagnetic field extends several feet every direction every direction, yes, every direction up down, every direction around us is like a huge bubble and it's several feet. And that electromagnetic field has, in hard math has shown that it has information about our feelings. And the other part of our body that also transmits electromagnetic field is the brain, and so the brain and the heart interesting, yeah, and so heart math institute has all this technology where they can measure this. They can pick up this energy field and all this information that they have learned that is in it information about our thoughts and our emotions. Empaths can feel that, so empaths can feel that subtle energy, the field, from others.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 14:53
And the field from coming from others. So it happens to me because, as an empath, if I'm standing next to someone or I'm a therapist, so a client walks in and I can pick up their energy.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 15:07
I can I already sense what they're feeling before they tell me. Sometimes I can feel the sensations in my body and so I might ask them do you feel pressure in your chest right now? And they're like, yes, like I can feel it, or I can feel it in my belly or my back and I feel all those I have also. This was since I was a child. It has happened more than 10 or 15 times in my lifetime. I can sense when a woman is pregnant before. Sometimes they know, like I knew I was a child and I knew my mom was pregnant before she knew. And I told her mom, I think you're pregnant and she was like what? Oh, there's no way.
April Snow: 15:50
And she was.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 15:52
She took a test and she was pregnant and she was shocked. She was shocked and she was like how did you know? And I was like you've been pregnant before and I could, I feel it in you, like the way you feel when you're pregnant. She had five other kids after me, sure, so you had some practice. I had some practice, but I was like, but the way you feel to me when you're pregnant is different, and so you felt like that to me right now. And so that's happened when I was a child, as a teenager, as an adult, where I have told someone I think you might be pregnant, or even before they tell me, I already know, I walk into a room and I'm like I feel something different.
April Snow: 16:35
You sense it.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 16:36
I sense it. I definitely sense it. Or, like I said, I'm feeling the pain that someone else is feeling that is sitting next to me, so all kinds of different sensations. All kinds of different sensations.
April Snow: 16:49
I think of an empath as more picking up on people's pain or struggle, emotional pain, but you're really widening the scope here.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 16:59
It's widening the scope, because it's not just pain or sorrow, it's also joy, it's also life. It's if someone is coming in and they're super excited, I'm going to pick that up right, and I'm going to be happy as well, and so I can sense a lot of those different emotions, sensations, and that's what makes an empath different than hsp.
April Snow: 17:24
I'm almost picturing it on a scale. So all humans have mirror neurons at least I think so we do, yes, and then hsps have more mirror neurons, but empaths have you said it's hyper reactive mirror neuron system like they're really picking up on all this energy nuance of someone's experience, that, that field that you talked about, that electromagnetic field, that that emanates from our hearts and our brains, and with that comes emotional information, you said, information about their bodies and what their bodies are going through, and when you're aware of it you can sense the subtleties. That's right. What is that like for you? Because that sounds really intense. It is, and I can resonate with the part, especially about clients. If clients come in with a headache, anxiety, I can feel it in my body, and that was when I had finally had to realize I think I'm an empath yeah you're feeling all that?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 18:21
I don't think.
April Snow: 18:22
I can ignore it anymore. Uh, but could you describe what is it like to live with that level of awareness about other people's experiences?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 18:30
Yeah, of anxiety and I also developed depression and I felt like I was crazy sometimes because I was feeling all these different emotions and I just didn't understand, like where are they coming from? What is? This why am I feeling like this? I don't know, and so then, knowing this and understanding this better, now I know a lot of those emotions that I was feeling were not mine.
April Snow: 19:08
How do you know that when you're little? You don't, you don't.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 19:12
Unless someone teaches you. I think that it's so important that we can start teaching, and we can see that in a child, because you're born this way and you're a highly sensitive child. You're an empath as a child, your whole life, and so if we start teaching children about emotional intelligence, about emotion regulation, about boundaries, about, uh, differentiating, differentiation from one person to another, we can start teaching young. Then that's going to make a huge difference. I didn't learn this until I was an adult and, with my therapist, in my own healing journey, meeting another empath also, which that was like the biggest thing, because she told me I think you're an empath and I was like what is that? And then I started learning about it and I was like everything makes sense now, yeah, but the way that I manage it, it's taken me years and my own work and my work as a therapist too, and just learning, doing research and testing things what works best for me, what doesn't? A lot of self-care, a lot of self-care, a lot of boundaries and really, yeah, differentiation. And so one of the things that I do with clients, for example, when a client comes in and I feel everything, I will allow myself to feel it in the moment, but just for a moment, and then I will set a boundary to let it go. And I will even say mentally, their pain is not my pain, it is not mine to keep, it is not mine to carry, it is not mine to carry and I let it go. And you have to do that very intentionally, and I think this is the work that we have to do to dive deeper, to be able to recognize okay, where did this emotion come from? Is it coming from me? If it's coming from me, then I can probably identify the root, or I can identify that. It makes sense, right. But if I can't, there's no reason, there's no explanation, and more than likely you picked that up from someone else With my husband.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 21:17
He has anxiety, and so there are times when I'm totally fine. All of a sudden, I walk into the room where he's at and I am so anxious and I'm like okay, so I will ask him now are you feeling anxious? And he tells me I have to walk away because I keep feeling it. So I have to set the physical boundary of distancing myself as well and letting that go. Breathing, doing deep breathing I do yoga as well. It's a wonderful practice to connect with yourself and to release.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 21:53
But there's so many things to do with self-care that I can share with you as well, but boundaries are key, very key, because these are mental, emotional boundaries, even spiritual boundaries too, in the sense of I'm protecting my own spirit and I am connecting with me and knowing where I am and where I begin yeah, staying anchored to yourself, tethered to yourself, so you don't get swayed by all this energetic, emotional energy that you're attuned to because it's so easy, whether it's with clients or family partners, spouses, even kids, especially for me, the more emotionally attached I am to someone, the harder it is.
April Snow: 22:33
Yeah all the way but you're right it's really important. Is there a root there? Is this mine? So, just like you said, tell yourself, don't jump in when you're trying to help someone. Take that same pause. Is this mine? Do I know where it comes from? And if it's not, can I physically distance myself to pull away for out of that energetic field, or at least internally distance myself? This isn't my responsibility and it's not mine.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 22:58
I don't just say their emotion is not my emotion, their pain is not my pain, it's not mine to carry. Yeah, yeah, and we each carry our own.
April Snow: 23:08
That's enough yes, you said your first part is acknowledging this isn't mine. Let it go. And then how do you actually let it go? So I use a personally, use a lot of visualization, like imagining water wash over me or sending the energy down into the ground. What works for you when you're letting something go?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 23:30
Yeah. So there's a couple of things. So one of them is definitely breath work, and so when I breathe in peace, I breathe in, just I imagine a color that is very soothing. So visualization as. But when I breathe out, it's intentionally releasing, intentionally letting this go and and as I breathe, visualizing it just coming out, or visualizing a color that's maybe not common color, right, what does this feel like? If it's heavy, like sometimes, maybe I imagine a darker color and then then when I breathe out, I'm breathing all that darker color.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 24:07
But there's also things that I do to I could use the word restore and cleanse my own energy and center myself. So, like you said, it's a lot about anchoring yourself and coming back to your own center, remembering who you are, connecting with your own roots and in that sense, for me, culturally, is also connecting with my ancestors that have passed on but that I believe and know are still with me in spirit, and connecting with them is also very grounding and that I know that they guide me and that they're they're, they're with me right and again, this is cultural, is different in different cultures how we approach this, but some of my practices are meditation, yoga, cleansing in water. So water is definitely energy and it's restorative and it does cleanse our energy. So anything you can in water whether that's take a bath or go in a pool or go into the ocean, just take a shower, just being around water, too, is very soothing and calming.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 25:16
I also do grounding with the earth, so connecting with Mother Nature and connecting with the elements of the earth, because nature is the greatest medicine that we have. It's my biggest medicine and healer, and I do earthing, and so earthing is basically a practice where you plant your bare feet on the ground. It could be a grass patch, but you could also do it just on like dirt or you could do it on sand. But where you are touching your bare feet, are touching the earth and you're connecting with the earth right and absorbing some of that restorative energy that that the earth also has, that electromagnetic field, and that energy.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 25:58
It's very, very centering and restorative. It's a very cool thing to do to connect with mother nature as well. What other things should I get more into? More of that stuff.
April Snow: 26:11
Yeah, I think this is great because you're really talking about these deeper practices and connecting beyond yourself, whether it be ancestor work or connecting with earth or thing getting your feet on the ground. But yeah, what else works for you? Yeah.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 26:23
What else works for you? Yeah, so journaling is super important and I really like it because it helps you to go deeper and talk to yourself and process your emotions and process your thoughts just deeper and being really transparent with yourself as well. Deeper and being really transparent with yourself as well, so that you can get to the root and so that you can also differentiate what you're feeling. If that is yours, that is something you need to heal, it's your own wound and you need to do work on, or is there something that you're picking up from someone else that you need to let go? And it just really, it just really helps to move through some of those emotions as well, so you're not stuck with them, and some of the thoughts as well, that we can sometimes get stuck with our thoughts. So journaling helps you move through that as well.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 27:21
Music is wonderful. There's so much healing and science tells us that music is such a wonderful thing that helps to heal. It really does. It helps to soothe, but also it helps to decrease pain. There's research that shows that music helps to reduce physical pain in the body and also emotional pain. Right, so I surround myself with music, oh.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 27:47
I love that, just having it on, letting it inspire you having it on in the background or I start dancing salsa sometimes and just let my body move and go with the flow, so moving, my body moving your body to release right.
April Snow: 28:03
That's huge and salsa is a little bit of natural bilateral stimulation, right the back and forth that's true I never thought of it regulating, yeah oh my gosh, yeah, you just made me realize that but yeah, it feels like a great tool these and it's fun and it's calm, it's soothing yeah, what a great practice. It's soothing yeah, what a great practice.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 28:25
It's soothing, yeah, interestingly, yawning is another way of releasing energy. So just like doing that, yeah, get yourself to yawn it's amazing how it works. But when you yawn, you're releasing energy too. Yeah, the body will naturally do it, yeah, so that's a great way to release energy too. Like when we're feeling heavy, we tend to sigh. So that's a very similar thing, right, and that's the body's way of also trying to release.
April Snow: 28:54
So much wisdom there.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 28:55
Yeah, the body has so much wisdom. Moving your body helps you release emotions. We know from all the research about trauma and how the body keeps the score right.
April Snow: 29:05
And when we move our body we are releasing so much that our muscles and ourselves are carrying so moving your body in any way that you can and that you're able to yeah, it's really coming back over and over, coming back to self, yes, coming back to self, tethering back to self, yes, coming back to self, tethering back to self, rooting down. And then what does my body, what does my physical body need, which then supports my emotional process? And then I love all the practices that you're naming. Oh, yes, these are all my favorites. Oh, awesome, good, especially journaling. Journaling is something I'll do, sometimes a few times a day if I'm going through a lot, and it's just such a helpful way to get those thoughts out, process the emotions. I think it sounds like adding a physical component is really important. Yes, what would you say? I think it's essential.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 29:58
I think, it's essential Right, because we are made up of body, mind, spirit. There's a connection and it's a holistic approach of taking care of each part of us, right like as a whole right, it's true, we need to think about all the different parts of ourselves and nurturing those.
April Snow: 30:19
Yeah, so, as you're going through these practices, I imagine do they. Do they help you connect with the, the more light or joyful parts of being an empath? You talked about some of the heavier parts, but what about the strengths or the gifts? Does that help you?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 30:36
a thousand percent. A thousand percent, right. I went from being this just drained, overwhelmed, depressed, just burnt out, to being someone who can honor myself and honor this as a gift, as a strength, and where now I have learned to use it, leverage it right to do good for me and to others. Because I use it in my work as a therapist, as a a counselor, as a coach, and I bring that into my practice right, and so it helps me attune with my clients, I think, to a whole nother level in experiencing a lot of what they're experiencing in the moment, and I really consider that as like a superpower, and I think understanding it and accepting it also allowed me to let go of the stigma and when people, even if someone, tells me I'm sensitive, I just I'm like yeah, I am, and I love it.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 31:40
Like it's no longer something that I should feel ashamed of or that I should feel there's something wrong. So I embrace it. It is my superpower, it is my strength and I love feeling and sensing. So I enjoy being so connected to nature, to animals, to other people, and I also enjoy being able to send it back, sometimes release it that the boundaries, and be very aware that's what I'm doing right, because that awareness changed the whole game.
April Snow: 32:15
Yes, oh, I love that. It's like when you take control yeah, you're intentional about how you take care of yourself. So much opens up. And I love how you said yeah, I'm sensitive. There's nothing wrong with that, because I think people oftentimes will throw out as an insult and then expect us to want to change, to react.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 32:34
But yeah, I'm sensitive and it can just be that I am and I'm, and it's okay, like I have nothing wrong.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 32:41
I'm not ashamed of it, yeah, and it's. It is a gift, and I think, especially the world we live in, when there is so much pain and so much loss and just we keep going through everything that's happening right now Right, we need empaths, we need highly sensitive people, we need people who can be attuned and aware and very empathic, and our nature is to want to help others. Our nature is to want to make a difference, and most of us end up doing that. Most of us end up choosing careers where we're helping others and we're doing something meaningful. And there are people who are famous, who we know now they've been identified as empaths, and one of them was Gandhi, and another one Mother Teresa, oprah, princess Diana, and, if we think about these, are all people who have made a big impact in the world, exactly.
April Snow: 33:38
There are people that have shown up, maybe lived lives that people wouldn't think would be possible as an empath or highly sensitive person and I also see you doing that. You've put a book out Self-Care for Empaths.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 33:50
Is that the title? Do I have that right? Yes, it's the Empath Self-Care Journal. I can show it to you. Oh, I'd love to see it.
April Snow: 33:56
Oh there it is Perfect.
April Snow: 33:58
So the Empath Self--care journal. So you've put out a book. You're doing coaching I know you showed up in the media. You're really living an impactful life as an empath and hsp, and so you're just proof of what's possible, and so it's a good reminder that we don't have to get stuck in that overwhelm right, that depletion or burnout, constantly self-sacrificing. There is more that's possible, and you shared so many amazing examples of what we can do to get to this place, to uplift ourselves, to utilize our gifts, to make an impact. There's so many things available that I think we often think are off the table for us as sensitive people.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 34:40
Yeah, and a lot of times we think, oh my gosh, this is such a burden and I hate it. And it can be, and especially when we don't know how to manage it or we don't have the tools. But the good news is, we can learn the tools and we can live a life where we have more peace, we have more balance and we are not constantly burned out. We can be peaceful and thrive. So that is the good news that we don't have to live burnt out, overwhelmed, all the time yeah, we don't have to.
April Snow: 35:12
It's just a matter of slowly setting those boundaries, slowly just finding practices that work, whether it's connecting with nature, connecting with breath work, yoga. These are all amazing resources. I just recently have reconnected to my yoga practice because it's incredible, the impact, oh yeah, and it doesn't take a lot 20 or 30 minutes in the morning or before I go to bed, and it makes a significant difference. And that's that differential susceptibility which I know you've talked about it as well, that we're more impacted by positive supports or practices. Yes, why not lean into those?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 35:49
Yeah, exactly.
April Snow: 35:49
Yeah.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 35:51
Lean into what works for you. And there's more work we can do right, especially in therapy, in reframing our thoughts, learning to manage negative thoughts right and learning how to have healthier relationships. And that's where also boundaries come in doing somatic practices right, utilizing the body, connecting with the body and and spiritual practices. And that depends on each person and what you might consider is spiritual for you. It can be just connecting again to yourself. It could also be connecting, like me, with your ancestors or to a higher power, if that is your practice. So this is very dependent on your culture, your beliefs, but it's still a wonderful way to reconnect with you, and that's what yoga does too. It really helps connect with your own self and with your body and have a better relationship with your body as well.
April Snow: 36:48
It really is a deepening practice. So I'm thinking about we've offered a lot of examples and thank you for that of what are some of the steps people can take to connect more deeply inward to access those sensitive strengths, steps people can take to connect more deeply inward to access those sensitive strengths. And a lot of times we get stuck in the stigma of sensitivity. We believe the myths that we've heard about sensitivity. Oh, it's not real. I don't actually need this. I'm being too reactive. Can we talk about what are some of the myths that people might hear that aren't true when they're trying to connect back to themselves?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 37:19
I think the biggest one is that sensitivity is a weakness, and if you're sensitive, you're weak. You need to toughen up, right. I think all of us sensitive people can probably say that we've been called too sensitive at some point in our life, right, and so we believe it's a weakness ourselves. We internalize that message and so realizing that's not true, that it is in fact and can be a strength, then makes a whole difference, right in how you see yourself and then how others will see you, right, the way that you present yourself as well. Another one I would say is that people and this is about empaths that empaths are the result of trauma or a bad childhood.
April Snow: 38:07
Yes, thank you for addressing that.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 38:09
Yes, and so what I will say is that we all experience trauma. We all experience trauma at different levels. We're not all empaths. Only 5% of the population are empaths. Only five fees make about 20 of the population, and that's only five. According to the, the studies and the research so far that has been done, it's not. Maybe there's a correlation where so we don't know where empaths did it come from a whole line of intergenerational trauma that we're so that we've developed sensitivity, but we don't know that. We don't have the research to prove that. Uh, so there's a correlation, but it's not pause. In effect, right like trauma doesn't make the empath, and in my experience, I didn't have a bad childhood, but I was always an empath. I've to me's like I was born like this, right Like I've lived it in my own body and I was born this way, so I wasn't made because of trauma. I think that's one of the ones that I hear a lot.
April Snow: 39:12
That's an important one to let folks know. This is just how you're born 5% of the population born as empaths. 20% born as highly sensitive people.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 39:25
Yeah, exactly. And the thing is we all have trauma and there's intergenerational trauma that we all carry. It's gonna present differently, but I don't know who decided that. Empaths are it right? Oh yeah, we're the result of trauma. It's not true. And also, there's another one about empaths is that empaths are not real and, in fact, are covert narcissists.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 39:46
That's a big one, yeah empaths are real and there's enough research out there that we can read, that we can look up. There's been studies that have also said back in the 80s were not more research, but the recent research has shown yes, empaths are real. There was research in the 80s that said there weren't, or that they were narcissists, that we were narcissists, but that has since been debunked. Yeah, and anyone can be a narcissist like narcissism is a spectrum. I don't think that even hsPs can be narcissistic too. Empaths could be too. But not all. It's a whole.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 40:24
No, not all. So that's exactly it. Empathism is a spectrum and we can all have even like a level of it in us, but it doesn't mean oh okay, if you call yourself an empath, it means you're a narcissist.
April Snow: 40:37
All right, it's not that straightforward, right, there's so many different layers that we're talking and nuances, yeah, and nuances exactly.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 41:17
Yeah, exactly, and so I think someone might hear something, or you'll just take a piece that you heard from a study and then it becomes, it goes viral, it becomes pop culture. Yeah, but it isn't accurate, and so it's important to have the right information.
April Snow: 41:34
That's right, exactly and really needing to do. That's why it's so important to learn about yourself as a sensitive empath, to not just take something you've heard on social media or something Maybe someone pulled out of a study a one study out of many and running with that as fact. It's important.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 41:52
Exactly yes. Yeah, mishka, for the people that are out there that are just learning about themselves as empaths, as HSPs maybe, who are struggling to put some of these practices into place, is there a message that you could share, a message of encouragement that you could share with them? Yes, I will say you are not broken. There's nothing wrong with you and you were born this way and you can thrive. Just got to learn the right tools. And we all have a healing process and a healing journey, and it's our own journey, right, but we got to start it somewhere. If you haven't started it, maybe starting with a book, right, like you have a wonderful workbook as well. That's very helpful for HSPs and has so many wonderful tools as well. That's very helpful for HSPs and has so many wonderful tools as well.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 42:43
Yeah, and starting there. Or looking for a therapist that you align with that's so important. Right, to align with your therapist, and you can do it right. We just take it one step at a time. Take one step at a time and find kindred spirits, too. We are out here, right?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 43:02
We need to surround ourselves with other people who get us right, who are similar to us, the like-minded folks. So that is important to surround ourselves with, because then we start noticing wait a minute, there's so many others who are like me and we can support each other and we can thrive. We don't have to, we don't have to hide in the shadows and something that makes it very lonely and very difficult when we're hiding this part of ourselves because we might be ashamed, because people have told us that it's some. You know, it's a weakness or we've been pathologized, because the empath gets pathologized a lot, and I think high sensitivity as well, even by therapists who don't know about this, because we don't learn about this in school. We don't learn about this. This isn't part of our training. This is something that you have to go out there and learn.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 43:55
And so I would say to therapists out there I encourage you to really educate yourself and learn more about this, because there's going to be so many clients walking through your doors who are going to be empaths, who are going to be highly sensitive and will need your help.
April Snow: 44:10
That's right and to receive them with open arms and an accurate understanding of what that experience is and where it comes from. That it's something you're born with and supporting them to to live a life where they can shine and thrive and allow those strengths to come through. Is it?
April Snow: 44:31
it really is about the choices you make day to day. How can you support yourself? Yeah, thank you so much. You offered so much good information and so many resources that I know are going to resonate with people. I will make sure that I share your book in the show notes, along with your website and social media. Mishka does a great job of showing up on social media. So many helpful resources there, so I'll also share your upcoming course for empaths Finding Peace and Balance. Could you share a little bit more about that? Your upcoming?
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 45:01
course for empaths Finding Peace and Balance. Could you share a little bit more about that? Absolutely, thank you for asking. Yes, I am going to be launching an online course. This is going to be live. It's called Finding Peace and Balance, and we're going to be meeting for six weeks and this is going to really dive deeper into what it is to be sensitive, what it is to be a sensitive soul and when I say sensitive souls, I include both empaths and HSPs within that realm, and so both are welcome to the course and we're going to be doing a lot of the techniques that I shared today oh, perfect, and a lot more.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 45:36
We're going to be learning how to better protect ourselves, how to restore our energy, how to better connect with ourselves and how to better nurture ourselves and practice that self-care. And I will be including my book as well. For anyone who signs up, we'll get a copy of the book and it's going to be starting middle of May. You can go on my website and that's where you can sign up and you can find out more information and see when it's going to be starting exactly, because I haven't set the exact date, but it's going to be around the middle of May, perfect.
April Snow: 46:10
Oh, I love that. Such a great resource that people can dive into, have some community be guided through these practices that are so important and essential, Because it can be hard to do it in a vacuum all by yourself. It's so important to have that.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 46:24
You. Really it's important to have the support.
April Snow: 46:27
Yes, absolutely. I'll make sure I include that in the show notes as well.
Mishka Clavijo Kimball: 46:32
I appreciate it. Thank you so much, April.
April Snow: 46:42
Thanks so much for joining me and Mishka for today's conversation. What I hope you'll take away is that your experience as a sensitive empath is real and valid. It's also possible to set down the burdens of being so empathetic, and by being intentional to care for your needs, you can live a deeply fulfilling life as an empath and as a sensitive person. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HB resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
