50: Balancing Work and Creative Passions
With Brian Zirngible, LMFT
Are you getting enough time for what you love? In this episode, I talk with Brian Zirngible, LMFT about balancing your career and creative passions as an HSP and:
• Regulating overwhelm and burnout with music, breathwork, and movement
• Finding time for what nourishes you through boundaries and communication
• How improv can support HSPs in being more flexible and resilient
Brian is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist with a solo private practice in St. Paul, Minnesota. Brian specializes in supporting highly sensitive men, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs and athletes by turning pain into possibility. As an actively working musician and artist himself, Brian understands the unique challenges of the entertainment industry and the pressures of many unrealistic expectations and soul-crushing deadlines. Brian offers hope, healing and support for highly sensitive and creative men who are stuck, lost and who are searching for renewed purpose and more balance in their lives.
Keep in touch with Brian:
• Website: http://brianzirngible.com
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brianzirngiblelmft
Resources Mentioned:
• Highly Sensitive Person by Dr. Elaine Aron: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780553062182
Thanks for listening!
You can also follow "SensitiveStrengths" for behind-the-scenes content plus more educational and inspirational HSP resources:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Brian Zirngible: 0:31
Always in the back of my head, too, is my energy. Time is energy, and I only have a limited amount of that. So structuring boundaries, my time, my days, my weeks If I don't have the energy, I can't perform like I want to.
April Snow: 0:54
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Brian Zirngable about balancing your career and creative passions as an HSP, regulating your emotions with music, and the importance of boundaries and communication to prevent overwhelm. Brian is a licensed marriage and family therapist with a solo private practice in St Paul, minnesota.
April Snow: 1:37
Brian specializes in supporting highly sensitive men, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs and athletes by turning pain into possibility. As an actively working musician and artist himself, brian understands the unique challenges of the entertainment industry and the pressures of many unrealistic expectations and soul-crushing deadlines. Brian offers hope, healing and support for highly sensitive and creative men who are stuck lost and who are searching for a new purpose and more balance in their lives. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. Hi Brian, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to chat with you today.
Brian Zirngible: 3:02
April, thank you so much for having me. I love your vibe and your message. I've been following you and hashtag stalking you for a while now. It's so awesome to finally meet you on video and in the audio world.
April Snow: 3:16
So, yeah, I feel like we have been friends for so long but have never actually met, which is just lovely.
Brian Zirngible: 3:23
Just a community from afar yeah, a supportive community, and you know shared values, shared thoughts and ideas about specific and and other things, so this is very good.
April Snow: 3:37
Yeah, this is. It's lovely to take this a little deeper. So, because we're just starting to get to know each other more in this way, I really do want to hear your HSP discovery story, if you can remember how or when you realized that you're an HSP.
Brian Zirngible: 3:53
I've thought about this several times and in different ways, and it just kind of struck me when I was a young kid that I always felt sad or emotional about. If someone else was hurting or if I saw something happen to an animal, I would just feel like awful and really take it hard and personal, and even with constructive criticism I would always just feel like, you know, take it very hard and that would be tough for me. So, gosh, grade school, just those feelings. But I didn't know what it meant. I knew that I felt different and was noticing other students and my classmates and kids not really feeling or acting the way I did when those things happened. So it was kind of a gradual discovery, but I didn't name it until maybe five, six years ago. Then I was like aha, light bulb, what the heck?
April Snow: 4:58
so yeah, yes, yes, that is such a relatable progression of you knew something was different. You're so empathetic and aware. I remember feeling that way too of like if someone would be doing something to an animal that was maybe a little rough, I would really have a strong reaction, where other kids would think it was funny, but yeah, and then it clicks into place later.
Brian Zirngible: 5:25
Yeah, hopped into my universe but I knew that was like quite powerful. To just look at the book, glance through the book, devour the book, understand the connection there and you know. Finally just put the book out on our coffee table for my wife to read and that was her introduction, more or less to like this is an identifiable thing. This is, you know, nameable and it has a name and it's definable. It's not just me being weird and quirky and different, but it's an actual thing. So the education of you know, my wife and people around me my parents, friends, bandmates, colleagues.
Brian Zirngible: 6:21
It was just kind of this gradual progression of educating those around me.
April Snow: 6:27
Yeah, that's such a good point because it's not just your own self-discovery. It's then okay. Now I need to communicate this with everyone that's close to me.
Brian Zirngible: 6:44
Yeah, discovery it's then okay. Now I need to communicate this with everyone that's close to me. Yeah, I use that coffee table story with a lot of my clients that are are married to someone or with someone who is not highly sensitive, and so that just that self-discovery and then educating those around us is just kind of a pivotal point in a lot of different relationships. So I just found it very helpful.
April Snow: 7:00
Yeah, so your wife is not an HSP.
Brian Zirngible: 7:04
Not as much as me. She's sensitive in many and certain ways, but not probably as intense or as frequent as I feel sensitive and we talk about it a lot in our house and I'm courageous enough to speak to it and name it and say, hey, I'm being really sensitive right now, helpful for us, but yeah it's just an open ticket item in our house, so that's really helpful and supportive.
April Snow: 7:33
It is. It does help my wife and I talk about. She's also an HSP, so we have kind of a concentration, but we talk about it a lot it's so. I mean, for me it's very freeing that it can be part of our regular everyday conversations, right? Instead of needing to put yourself in a box or try to hide it away or act like something doesn't bother you, like we can just let it fully out.
Brian Zirngible: 8:04
Yeah, to hide it away or act like something doesn't bother you, like we can just let it fully out. Yeah, and I know one of the pieces in in the highly sensitive person book by elaine I think it was maybe the last paragraph. Maybe she said even though we're highly sensitive people, we still need to do hard things. We can do things that aren't comfortable for us. We can do them. That's always in my head.
April Snow: 8:23
Yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 8:24
Yeah.
April Snow: 8:24
That's it, right Cause I I try to hold onto that too, because I don't want to give, I don't want to live a life that's not interesting or where I don't get to do what I want to do or I challenge myself. You know, I like going to live concerts and I like traveling and I like pushing myself to show up for the community. So, yeah, we can have more of that. We don't have to hide away and be a reclusive person.
Brian Zirngible: 8:49
You like to go to live concerts? Oh, what are you doing? This Friday night, april, I'll be in Minnesota. Come to see my ball.
April Snow: 8:59
I know, I know I want to. I really do, because live music is literally my favorite form of self-care Regulate. It's what lights me up the most. I love it just so much, so I'm really excited that we're talking today.
Brian Zirngible: 9:13
Your favorite song is Regulate. I like it.
April Snow: 9:16
Do you have a song called Regulate?
Brian Zirngible: 9:18
No, that's Warren G.
April Snow: 9:20
Oh, Warren G.
Brian Zirngible: 9:22
We live in California, come on.
April Snow: 9:24
I know I'm writing it down. I have to put it on after this conversation. I'm putting it on my HSP playlist.
Brian Zirngible: 9:32
That's awesome.
April Snow: 9:33
Yeah, exactly that's what we need, right? So I do want to talk to you more about that, because you're a therapist you've mentioned, you know alluded to that and you're a working musician. Can you tell me more about, like, how those two fit together, how long you've been doing each of those? So?
Brian Zirngible: 9:52
I've been playing music. I I started trombone band lessons in fifth grade and then grade school, high school that played in college jazz bands. We were in Mexico with our college jazz band, st Mary's University in Winona, met my current bandmate, j-bell, and we started an acoustic pop duo and started playing at coffee shops, bars, libraries, anniversary parties, you name it. We played everywhere. And so having to deal with all of the financials, the travel, the logistics of all of that stuff, booking gigs, and so that experience kind of solidified well, I want to do, I want to keep doing this on the side, as a part-time thing. I didn't think I could really make it professionally as that's my gig and so I always knew I loved people, interested, curious about people and, you know, social I can't even remember the name of my bachelor's degree, it was so long ago, uh, not social studies.
Brian Zirngible: 11:04
But yeah, sociology yeah yeah, so in that realm yep in the therapy realm therapy, Therapy realm, cultural stuff, anthropology Always fascinating and curious. And then got my master's degree at St Mary's up here in the Twin Cities for marriage and family therapy. Got licensed, worked for different agencies, group of practice and now solo private practice here in St.
April Snow: 11:34
Paul. So you've gone through all the different steps. So you realize, okay, I love music, I love playing, performing you still do, but it does sound. You mentioned the logistics. That sounds like a lot for an HSP and I know HSPs do that full time. But I just think about, like Alanis Morissette, for instance. She's kind of like the most obvious because she talks about sensitivity. She's been, she's worked with Elaine. She talks about how hard that is on an HSP. So was that part of it? Do you find it difficult to manage the stimulation or the rigorous schedules of that, or is it more? I just have this other love.
Brian Zirngible: 12:18
To be fair, Alanis Morissette has a manager.
April Snow: 12:22
Right.
Brian Zirngible: 12:22
There are people who take care of all that stuff.
April Snow: 12:25
Exactly, you're doing, it all right.
Brian Zirngible: 12:29
Yeah, I mean more or less a total kind of DIY, independent kind of stuff, but I still have to see that documentary and it's called Sensitivity, right?
April Snow: 12:41
Sensitive yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 12:43
Featuring Alanis Morissette. Yeah, I mean, in college we just kind of went with the flow. Maybe I had more energy, oh yeah, and stupidity.
April Snow: 12:53
Yes.
Brian Zirngible: 12:57
What's naivete?
April Snow: 12:58
about it, naivete, yep.
Brian Zirngible: 13:00
Like it'll be fine. Oh gosh, I'm so tired, I'm going to take a nap. Yes, I'm getting up and doing it all over again. As I've gotten older, my energy level's gotten down. I'm learning to block off the calendar. If we have a gig on a night here, I'm going to block the next day off. I don't know I've done two, three, four gig nights in a row while working the therapy job and it just doesn't work for me anymore.
April Snow: 13:28
Yeah, that's a lot yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 13:30
And a lot of my clients are doing the same thing. And a lot of my clients are doing the same thing. They're gigging, logistics, scheduling, booking, DIY kind of stuff. And so we have a simpatico we understand where each other's are coming from.
April Snow: 13:50
That's kind of nice too. So you work with a lot of sensitive musicians, would you say.
Brian Zirngible: 13:56
I do.
April Snow: 13:57
Yeah, you get each other.
Brian Zirngible: 14:00
It's my specialty niche.
April Snow: 14:01
Yes, yes.
Brian Zirngible: 14:03
Love it.
April Snow: 14:04
Yeah, so you understand the world and the struggles that they're up against.
Brian Zirngible: 14:09
Most of it. I mean, there's nuances that I might not understand and I will be fully open and honest with them. They might be in a full-touring, full-time band that is touring internationally. I've never really done that piece of it before, but I can certainly meet them where they're at. As far as balancing home life, work life, touring, rotation, boundaries oh my God, boundaries.
April Snow: 14:38
Boundaries yes.
Brian Zirngible: 14:43
Can you say a little bit?
April Snow: 14:44
more about why that's so important. As a musician, I would like to.
Brian Zirngible: 14:47
Yeah, I know it's weird, but Ashton Kutcher is an entrepreneur now and he owns a business is an entrepreneur now and he owns a business, and I read something where he would do what he needed to do first, right away in the morning and send out his stuff, and then he would look at things that were sent to him and I just that's always in the back of my head too is my time is energy, and I only have a limited amount of that. So just structuring boundaries, my time my days, my weeks.
Brian Zirngible: 15:25
If I don't have the energy, I can't perform. I can't perform like I want to. I've had performances where I'm embarrassed about how I felt during the show, and so I don't want that ever to happen again.
April Snow: 15:42
Yeah, it's hard.
Brian Zirngible: 15:44
Very hard yeah.
April Snow: 15:46
Because you're doing two things that take a lot of energy, a lot of emotional energy, you know, supporting clients and showing up on stage. And I just think about going to a concert and just how much musician puts in. I don't know that personally, but just witnessing it, feeling it. That's a lot that you're giving of yourself. I do want to talk about how you balance that. But first I'm just curious if you're open to sharing. When you say you felt embarrassed about how you felt, I guess I don't understand that as a non-musician. Would you be open to sharing a little bit more about what you mean by that?
Brian Zirngible: 16:21
I think during the performance I'm thinking about, I felt grumpy because I was tired and I didn't get enough rest earlier in the day, that I typically need to feel more energetic for a show.
April Snow: 16:39
Right.
Brian Zirngible: 16:40
And knowing that I couldn't, and for some reason I couldn't bounce back quick enough before I hit the stage and I was just kind of feeling a bit raw and agitated while during the show. Maybe there was a point during the show where I felt lighter and lifted and I kind of shook it off, but the beginning of that show I wasn't happy with. So, yeah, I've just learned throughout the years to give myself plenty of time to rest, yes, nurture myself and my energy and hydrate and all those self-care things before a performance so does that make sense?
April Snow: 17:22
Yeah, because you're not showing up as your best self or the self that you want to. Yeah, I'm just thinking about that general feeling of an agitated and my you know, I feel kind of like my nerves are a little raw and that's hard enough, but then to get up on a stage in front of people that's so vulnerable.
Brian Zirngible: 17:42
Yeah, and it is. But I also am aware of that. I can put on a face and make it till I make it and do that whole thing. But inside I know what's going on and I'm not happy with that deep feeling of disappointment in myself.
April Snow: 18:03
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense because only we know how we feel and other people don't notice that nuance of like, oh, that person isn't showing up 90, 100, whatever it is, but we feel it, we know it yeah, it's so relatable most of the time I give, you know, 98, but that time I was probably giving 79, so yeah, right, and isn't it interesting that I mean, I feel this, I hear this from my clients that even 79 isn't good enough, right, and? And oftentimes our 79 is probably closer to someone else's 100, doesn't put so much in. But yeah, we're hard on ourselves and we care about what we're doing.
Brian Zirngible: 18:51
You're not talking about perfectionism, are you what?
April Snow: 18:57
What is that? I don't know anything about that Come on now. Now, it's true, it creeps in everywhere. Cheers.
Brian Zirngible: 19:05
Thank you, I almost have that same coffee mug.
April Snow: 19:09
Oh, do you? I love this one. Yes, it's so pretty.
Brian Zirngible: 19:13
Made by a therapist friend of mine.
April Snow: 19:16
Oh, maybe I've seen that. Oh, potentially, I'm not sure that rings a bell for me.
Brian Zirngible: 19:23
Yeah, I don't know Anywho.
April Snow: 19:27
Yeah, anywho, yeah, anywho. So it sounds like you have to be really intentional about just having enough energy to show up in these two worlds as your therapist self and as your musician self. I'm just wondering about that how do you manage, you know, playing both of those parts because, like I said, they both take a lot of you. Do you ever feel like they're competing or it's hard to hold both?
Brian Zirngible: 19:49
It feels like most of the time I'm able to balance the two and after a day of seeing clients and I know I have a gig that same night part of me is tired and you know, processing the day of therapy and part of me is really excited to get on stage and play trombone and sing and get that energy out. That's one of my self-care necessities is moving my body yes breathing and singing and playing trombone.
Brian Zirngible: 20:24
That's a lot of breath work yeah I am practicing breath work as I'm performing and dancing and performing. I was born a performer, so I just love performing for folks.
April Snow: 20:38
And that is yeah, I don't.
Brian Zirngible: 20:41
I would have to do something else creatively if I worked in a band and performing if I were a therapist you know what I mean?
April Snow: 20:51
yes, absolutely right, because there's so many things you're doing that are regulating, releasing on stage the breath work, the movements, the joy, right, everything.
Brian Zirngible: 21:04
Yeah, it makes sense that that's the joy happens only when I'm performing perfectly.
April Snow: 21:12
So ah, yes, that perfectionism again it's gotta be at least above 79 yeah, so it's important, then, for you to make sure that you can show up as best you can.
Brian Zirngible: 21:27
Yeah, for sure. And there's going to be off nights. There's going to be nights I don't perform like. I would have hoped. But, I'm doing the best I can and not intentionally trying to mess up or anything.
April Snow: 21:42
Sure, how do you sit with those nights when you have given 79% or less and maybe you're not feeling great? How do you?
Brian Zirngible: 21:52
take care of yourself. After that, I try to have a very short memory for those moments and those nights that I just don't feel like I nailed it. Yeah so, but literally moving my body, getting on the bike, pumping some weights, free weights, going for a three mile walk and just listening to other music besides. That really helps kind of settle me and kind of ground me. And even talking through that stuff with my wife, just like I just really really did not do it tonight, and having her support is always helpful.
April Snow: 22:33
Yeah, yeah, it's a good reminder that it's okay.
Brian Zirngible: 22:36
Yeah.
April Snow: 22:36
It's okay to have off nights.
Brian Zirngible: 22:38
Shout out to my wife.
April Snow: 22:39
Yes, shout out to your wife what's your wife's first name.
Brian Zirngible: 22:43
Angie.
April Snow: 22:44
Shout out to Angie what's up, Angie? You two seem like such a strong team.
Brian Zirngible: 22:51
Steam Like a strong team A steam. Yeah, she's great, we balance each other out and I just, yeah, I love what we have together.
April Snow: 23:02
Yeah, it's really beautiful. I mean just seeing photos and hearing stories. It seems like you yeah, you two are really strong and it's important to have that support where you can talk through things and just a reminder that it's okay. Just an off night.
Brian Zirngible: 23:16
Yeah, yeah, it's soothing to know that she's there and we can talk through stuff.
April Snow: 23:22
Yeah, exactly yeah. So when you're on those walks, what kind of music are you listening to if you're open to sharing? Yeah, a little pumping up.
Brian Zirngible: 23:35
Electronic dance music. That's my jam. Dub dubstep, dub reggae.
April Snow: 23:41
Oh yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 23:42
Man, yeah, dance music is kind of where my heart is, and yeah, dance music is kind of where my heart is I listen. I follow a lot of different DJs and styles of that kind of stuff.
April Snow: 23:56
I love it.
Brian Zirngible: 23:57
It just oh.
April Snow: 24:00
Yeah, it's so freeing right, Just like letting that energy out and kind of just instantly shift your mood. It's pretty incredible.
Brian Zirngible: 24:06
Yeah.
April Snow: 24:07
Yeah, moving the body, blood flowing. Yes, I mean I really say so. When I was 18, I had some friends. They introduced me to the rave scene and I really think that dance was my first form of therapy before I ever knew anything about therapy or did any of my own work. It would I, I mean it really saved me. So I can resonate with that. You know that type of music and just the need for music and self-care or however you want to put it. Absolutely, it's really powerful. Yeah, yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 24:41
Something about that beat matching their heartbeat and just moving the body.
April Snow: 24:48
It's so primal. I can remember just feeling the going through my body and it's like, oh, it's really visceral.
Brian Zirngible: 24:56
Yes, you have to meet at uh coachella or burning man sometime there we go right dancing out.
April Snow: 25:06
I love the things that you're sharing today. You know, like you said, working out, or you know, putting on dance music or performing. It really goes back to these things that maybe you wouldn't expect an HSP to do, which it really excites me. You might think, oh, an HSP is going to listen to kind of gentle, soft music or be behind the scenes, but we can, yeah, we can show up in these, maybe some more intense ways sometimes or, you know, be at the forefront. It's just about having that balance off the stage or behind the scenes. I just appreciate that kind of undertone of the story that you're sharing.
Brian Zirngible: 25:41
Yeah, and I mean, don't get me wrong there's days when I want complete and want and need complete silence, or you know the sound of gentle waves crashing against the the shore. But then there's other moments. I need gangster rap and I need you know stuff in my ears right now yes, right that kind of dichotomy and that that balance is interesting definitely right.
April Snow: 26:10
Like yeah, you need variety, yes, to match your mood yep I'm a music mood matcher yeah right, there's always. I know there's always a song right to fit the mood.
Brian Zirngible: 26:26
It's the beauty of music well, I used to own a wedding business with my with. J Bell my bandmate friend and for 10 years I would DJ weddings and just feel the room. I knew what worked, what didn't and just kind of felt the vibe of it and that's kind of, you know, music fitting the mood.
April Snow: 26:47
I love that. Yeah, what a great position for an HSP where you can kind of just flow with what's happening in the space around you.
Brian Zirngible: 26:58
Well, certain moments.
April Snow: 27:00
Certain moments yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 27:01
Could fit for an HSP. But after 10 years I was like I can't do this anymore.
April Snow: 27:07
Yeah, what was the hardest part for you about that?
Brian Zirngible: 27:12
The demanding nature of the gig and the business, and some of the guests.
April Snow: 27:23
Sure Right, the interpersonal parts could be really challenging. People are aggressive. They want to hear certain songs right now. They imagine they're intoxicated. Yep yeah that part's not so great All of that.
Brian Zirngible: 27:38
Yeah, all of it, it was great while it lasted, and it's over now. Yeah, it's over.
April Snow: 27:44
Were you doing that, and also during your time as a therapist as well?
Brian Zirngible: 27:49
Yes, Okay, okay, that makes sense yeah. So, you're a therapist, wedding business owner and band stuff.
April Snow: 28:00
You do it all. Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. I think as therapists we need need something else I'm a big fan of that just to nurture different parts of ourselves or have things just come to full circle. You know, in a moment the work we do is so drawn out and long-term and elusive. So so to go on stage, do a gig, finish it, go home and just have that sense of completion, I would imagine is a nice alternative to the therapy world.
Brian Zirngible: 28:36
It is yeah, especially when I'm performing well.
April Snow: 28:39
So that's even better. That's the key, yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 28:44
Yeah, and getting that. You know, typically getting that paycheck right away at the end of the night is always nice too.
April Snow: 28:51
That's nice too, right? Yes, for sure. So you mentioned performing. Really to do it well, you need to be rested, recharge and be your best self there so you can show up a hundred you know, close to a hundred percent. You can bring the energy that you want to bring. But I'm sure there are many times that that's not available. Maybe you're overwhelmed, you're burned out. It's been a tough client day, since you're often doing games after client days, which is phenomenal to me. But I know it's a good release. But I'm just wondering how are you balancing those times when you are super overwhelmed? How are you managing through, through those?
Brian Zirngible: 29:28
I never really used to be a napper, take naps I don't. I don't ever remember taking naps in college or even immediately after college, but they've been really miraculous for me. Over the last few years I noticed that when I and I'm a napper where I can nap for 15, 20 minutes hard, completely shut down for 15, 20, and get up and be like let's go Okay.
April Snow: 29:59
Wow.
Brian Zirngible: 30:00
So that's been helpful. That's a really great tool that I think might be underrated, but I know that not everyone takes to naps that well. Some people need two hours to completely shut down and recharge, but I can do it in 15 or 20, and that will help me, but just some kind of transitional something. I'm a big hygiene person, so if I'm working as a therapist. During the day, I need to shower and or clean myself of the day before I jump on stage somehow.
Brian Zirngible: 30:44
You know, I've got cleaning wipes and deodorant and cologne and just things to change it up from work day to I'm performing now so that transitional stuff is really helpful for me yes, so important yeah yeah like there's something about showering off the energy of the day.
April Snow: 31:07
I mean, for me it's so essential Like I just need that switch as well, like okay. I'm letting that go. It's also very regulating to be in the shower. It's a good chamber to process and let go of things.
Brian Zirngible: 31:19
Oh yeah.
April Snow: 31:20
Yeah, it's great.
Brian Zirngible: 31:21
I've written so many songs in the shower.
April Snow: 31:23
Oh, right yeah.
Brian Zirngible: 31:29
Watching the day go down the drain is is nice for me. Oh, that's a song idea I know I was.
April Snow: 31:33
That's great. Copyright primes are able yeah, watching the day go down the drain. It's so poetic because that's truly what feels like it's happening just just releasing it, no, letting it go. And if you can't shower, I love this symbolic cleansing maybe doing something else instead.
Brian Zirngible: 31:54
Yeah. Just create a shift Coconut wipes.
April Snow: 31:59
Coconut wipes.
Brian Zirngible: 32:00
Yeah, cleansing coconut wipes. Made of coconut or smelling like coconut Hygienic coconut scented wipes.
April Snow: 32:09
Oh, I like this.
Brian Zirngible: 32:10
Yeah, they're like baby wipes, but for adult musicians. I just made that up, I don't know. Did you know, I also do stand-up comedy.
April Snow: 32:23
I did not know. I'm seeing that now.
Brian Zirngible: 32:25
I'm just starting now, are you really? No, but I love comedy.
April Snow: 32:27
I'm seeing that now.
Brian Zirngible: 32:28
I'm just starting now, are you really?
April Snow: 32:30
No, but I love comedy.
Brian Zirngible: 32:31
That is a very popular thing.
April Snow: 32:33
Do you ever tell jokes or stories on stage?
Brian Zirngible: 32:35
I used to back in the other group that I was in, but currently the group that I'm in doesn't really cater to that type of performance. Got it that type of performance. So got it, got it. We just, we all love and enjoy and appreciate comedy, stand-up, improv. Yes, yeah, improv comedy for sure helps me kind of transition. Therapist, musician, performer too.
April Snow: 33:03
So can you say more? What do you? I?
Brian Zirngible: 33:06
I don't know much about improv, so I'm just curious what you mean, like how that helps or that looks like I mean, even with this interview that we're doing, I'm doing some improv stuff, thinking off the top of my head, that's true. I'm gonna put ideas and shifting and moving. As therapists we have to do that all the time. Really, we don't know what story our client might share, how we're going to react to it. I truly believe that therapists should be trained in a little bit of improv, improv comedy. Sprinkle some humor in with the therapy process so it's not so heavy all the time yes, such a good regulator right to have a moment of levity or just a shift?
Brian Zirngible: 33:54
yeah, absolutely, and learning the timing of that too, like when can you, should you sprinkle a joke in?
April Snow: 34:01
maybe not let's wait you know, but and on performing in the band too, there's moments of levity and humor and stuff too that we kind of, but yeah I don't know, I just I feel like improv is such a wonderful tool that we all could use truly I mean as hsps, especially right when we often struggle with those transitions or the unexpected as you're talking about. It just feels like a little bit light, like it's a little bit of a moving bridge to help me get from one thing to the next. Can't quite describe it, but I could see how that would be helpful, just to have that mentality or that approach, however you want to call it.
Brian Zirngible: 34:42
I like that moving bridge kind of visual.
April Snow: 34:45
That's what it feels like Like oh, I'm moving, but I still have a bridge to help me connect.
Brian Zirngible: 34:50
Right yeah.
April Snow: 34:52
Fascinating. I love that. Yeah, Improv is something I've always been scared of. If I'm honest, I think I think of it in the kind of traditional way where you're really I don't know, kind of being put on the spot or having to be super goofy. But I love this idea that it could come into everyday life and we're probably doing it naturally. We don't even realize it.
Brian Zirngible: 35:16
You're probably doing it right now.
April Snow: 35:18
Probably Because I'm just coming up with questions off the top of my head.
Brian Zirngible: 35:23
You are? No, you're not. You sent them to me before we even started. No, I know.
April Snow: 35:28
But I've added in a bunch, I know, Just because it's a fascinating conversation and I've known you from afar for so long. I'm like now's the time I can ask questions.
Brian Zirngible: 35:40
Hold on, let's go.
April Snow: 35:42
No, this makes sense for an HSP, for everybody, but especially for an HSP who might need that little bit of an extra support and being flexible.
Brian Zirngible: 35:50
Yes, yeah, flexibility, resilience, flowing with the flow not being so rigid with the flow, either expectations or agendas that's. It's just always kind of nice yeah, absolutely is.
April Snow: 36:06
Yeah. So I'm very curious. You know you're a musician in the community where you see clients. Do those worlds intersect at times, like, do you see clients at shows or are you working? You know being a therapist to clients you've seen on stage. Does that, does it get a little bit? Does it overlap?
Brian Zirngible: 36:27
Yeah, it sometimes can and I'm very transparent and open about those two different worlds. And, because it is my specialty, I'm still working as a musician in the community. I'm up front and open about that. It's on my website. Informed consent is pretty huge, but we always talk about it from the very beginning.
Brian Zirngible: 36:52
If an artist or a musician reaches out to me for therapy, we'll talk about what different worlds we inhabit within the music community and if there is too much overlap within the two of our worlds, I need to decide whether or not it's ethical to do that, to work with them, and we'll just talk about it and decide together. Hey, our worlds are far enough apart and different that I think I would be okay seeing you as a client. But if our worlds are a little bit too close and intermingled within the different musician sectors of the Twin Cities, then I decide that this will not work for us. So I refer and provide a bunch of referrals for other awesome therapists in the Twin Cities that work with musicians and artists around the area too. So it's again, it's always an open discussion. If we see each other out and about happenstance, we'll talk about it the next session and see how it was for everyone and just be really above board with that.
April Snow: 38:06
I love it. It sounds like this kind of collaborative boundary setting where you join with the client and just see, you know, does it make sense to work together or not? And if we do, when we bump into each other, what does that look like? And just talking about that up front, such a good lesson.
Brian Zirngible: 38:24
I'll avoid you. We both might be drinking alcohol if we're at the same show. We might be on First Avenue or something, and I might be with my wife, I might be with friends, and so we'll just talk about it without shame or embarrassment.
April Snow: 38:47
Great. You're a therapist, but you're also a human and a fellow musician.
Brian Zirngible: 38:48
I think that's really yeah, I don't know, just normalizing, like you get to have your life and you may be seen out in the world outside of the therapy room I do think that that is one of the reasons why a lot of the the male musicians reach out to me is because I just I'm part of the scene that they're in and they know that I get it yes.
Brian Zirngible: 39:11
So to feel validated and just normalizing those kind of unique challenges is good for them. So, but then we just have the discussion about you know, will our worlds collide and intermingle? More so than not, and are we all okay with that?
April Snow: 39:28
Yeah, yeah, like you said, going back to that informed consent, yeah, yeah, and it's so important to be to work with someone who understands you, maybe looks or looks like you do, or has has similar experiences. I imagine that the sensitive men you work with have a similar experience like oh, you get it.
Brian Zirngible: 39:50
I only, I only work with men that that look like me. I know they came across weird I was just meeting with a colleague and I, and I reminded her I was like you know. I do like to say I am my own ideal client. Oh, truly Right, Absolutely true they have to wear a jean shirt and wear the wild things on a t-shirt.
April Snow: 40:16
I thought, yep, it has to be that specific. I thought that's what your shirt said, but I wasn't sure it's confirmed now. Oh, let's get a visual.
Brian Zirngible: 40:27
There we go a new thrift store find oh, I love it.
April Snow: 40:34
That's really good. No, it's. It's so important to yeah to to be understood you feel heard is when the healing starts.
Brian Zirngible: 40:49
Someone else said that. I don't know who, but I'm quoting someone else.
April Snow: 40:54
So true, to feel heard is when the healing starts. Absolutely true, could be a song. Could totally be a song. Yes, we have a couple songs coming out of this conversation today.
Brian Zirngible: 41:07
It knows.
April Snow: 41:10
Well, Brian, this has been a really lovely conversation. I wanted to see if there's any final thoughts before we start to wrap up.
Brian Zirngible: 41:18
I thank you for your time and for inviting me on to Sensitive Stories podcast. It's been a real pleasure.
April Snow: 41:25
It has.
Brian Zirngible: 41:27
I guess if anyone listening is curious about their sensitivity or their partner's sensitivity, just to explore that a little bit and kind of look into the dynamics of what that means learn a bit about it, be gentle with yourself and or with your loved one.
Brian Zirngible: 41:48
If you know someone and just I don't know, educate yourself about stuff and how highly sensitivity shows up within people and even out in the community too. It's fascinating to realize that 20 percent of us are hsp and, yes, I remind myself of that sometimes. Yeah out of five people you know are highly sensitive. So, yeah, you're not alone I'm not alone. I'm not alone, you are not alone.
April Snow: 42:23
Yeah yeah, it not alone.
Brian Zirngible: 42:24
I'm not alone, you are not alone.
April Snow: 42:26
Yeah, yeah, it's so true that you know we do make up a larger percentage than I think we realize, because sensitivity is so pushed underground and we're pressured to show up like non-HSPs. But there are many of us out there and you know. If you realize that you are sensitive, just slide that.
April Snow: 42:45
Look across the coffee table nailed it yes, yeah, yeah, it can start there and I I think you know. It's such a good reminder that learning about our trait, who we are as sensitive people, so essential I think really understand yourself. If you've noticed growing up that you're different, you're more empathetic or anxious or, you know, perceptive, maybe there's more to it, maybe you're part of the club.
Brian Zirngible: 43:17
Join the club.
April Snow: 43:19
Join the club. Welcome here. It's pretty great actually.
Brian Zirngible: 43:23
It's not bad. Yeah, it's not bad yeah, it's not bad.
April Snow: 43:28
I love it so much. Well, brian, thank you so much for this. This was a joyful conversation. I really loved it. I'll be sure to share your website, your social media, in the show notes folks who want to reach out to you. Yeah, I hope we'll do this again soon.
Brian Zirngible: 43:42
Absolutely. Thank you so much, April. I appreciate it.
April Snow: 43:45
Of course. Thanks so much for joining me and Brian for today's conversation. What I hope you'll take away is just how important it is to carve out time for what you love and what fills you up, whether that's music or another passion. If you're local to Minnesota and want to work with Brian, you can find the link to his website in the show notes. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSP resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
