40: Using Food to Cope with Sensitivity
With Josie Munroe, LMFT
Have you used food to cope with your sensitivity? In this episode, I talk with Josie Munroe, LMFT about the connection between sensitivity and eating disorders and:
• What factors predispose highly sensitive people to developing an eating disorder
• Alternative ways to cope and find companionship other than food
• The difference between feeling calm and feeling numb as we try to soothe feelings of overwhelm and anxiety
• What changes are needed to make recovery resources more sensory friendly for HSPs
• Finding hope in the possibility of full recovery from eating disorders
Josie Munroe is an LMFT specializing in eating disorders and trauma recovery for Highly Sensitive People. She serves adults in California and Vermont through individual therapy and also has self-paced, online recovery courses available for anyone, anywhere. Josie is, herself, an HSP and an eating disorder survivor and is passionate about sharing the knowledge and tools that have transformed her work and her life.
Keep in touch with Josie:
• Website: https://www.yoursensitiverecovery.com • Website: https://www.josiemunroe.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yoursensitiverecovery
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/josieMFT
Resources Mentioned:
• Unlocking Recovery: The SensitiviKEY (How Sensitivity Shapes Eating Disorders and Guides Healing): https://www.yoursensitiverecovery.com/courses/unlocking-recovery
• Highly Sensitive Person book by Dr. Elaine Aron: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780553062182
Thanks for listening!
You can also follow "SensitiveStrengths" for behind-the-scenes content plus more educational and inspirational HSP resources:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
If you have a moment, please rate and review the podcast, it helps Sensitive Stories reach more HSPs!
This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Josie Munroe: 0:19
Perfectionism is so tricky because it's self-perpetuating and when your goal is actually something that's unattainable. You've got plenty of opportunities to beat yourself up under the guise of if I hate myself enough, I can turn into magically a version of myself that then I can love.
April Snow: 0:35
Very dangerous game, because that's not how it works welcome to sensitive stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP, without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Josie Monroe about using food to cope with overwhelm and anxiety as an HSP and the relationship between sensitivity and developing an eating disorder and what's needed for sensitive folks to have a full recovery.
April Snow: 1:28
Josie Monroe, spelled M-U-N-R-O-E is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in eating disorders and trauma recovery for highly sensitive people. She serves adults in California and Vermont through individual therapy and also has self-paced online recovery courses available for anyone anywhere. Josie is herself an HSP and an eating disorder survivor and is passionate about sharing the knowledge and tools that have transformed her work and her life. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. So, josie, can you start off by telling us your HSP discovery story, how or when you realized that you're highly sensitive?
Josie Munroe: 2:53
Absolutely Well, I'll say I always knew I was very sensitive. That was clear to me from very early. I kind of felt like an exposed nerve walking around. I'd cry when I stepped on bugs or had little funerals for dead birds I might find in the woods. But it wasn't until 2019, so I was 35, that I heard about the HSP trait for the first time, and it just so happens I went to coffee with an HSP therapist and I think we were talking about how much I hated networking and how important that is for being in private practice, but also how much I loathed it.
Josie Munroe: 3:39
And she said you know what? There's this really wonderful sweet group for highly sensitive therapists. I said, oh great, yeah, I'm definitely sensitive. She's like, no, I mean highly sensitive, as in sensory processing sensitivity mean. And so of course she gave me Dr Aaron's book, the Highly Sensitive Person, which I bought immediately and I remember the day that it came. This stands out to me so much. I took it out to the park by the apartment where I used to live and I had my little highlighter and I lay down on a blanket and I just highlighted, like nonstop for hours, crying over certain passages, like nonstop for hours crying over certain passages. I had not felt so seen and so validated and it was. It just clicked yeah, this is me. And then I started to see it in my parents and so many of the clients that I worked with. Hello, light bulb moment.
April Snow: 4:41
It really is a light bulb moment where it's like everything finally makes sense.
Josie Munroe: 4:46
Yeah.
April Snow: 4:47
And I appreciate that distinction you mentioned, because when the therapist said, oh yeah, you recognize that you're sensitive, but there's that other layer that's missing, right? Oh, this is a trait, this is a collection of characteristics we're born with and it really does shift. I'm curious, when you learned about the trait that dr erin wrote about in her first book, what shifts then when you have that extra layer, and you said you notice it around you in your world, but did anything shift internally for you?
Josie Munroe: 5:17
oh, 100, yeah, yeah. I think the biggest thing was learning how to work with the trait as opposed to against it and trying to push it down, squash it. I really got to look back and go, wow, I had been masking for a lot of my life than I did ever, growing up, through my young adulthood, and I think that's common, not only as we get older, but just letting the guard down. And now I cry at everything and I don't try to hide it, I'm fine with it.
April Snow: 5:58
Yeah, you can be your full self with your emotions. Yeah, it is a relief.
Josie Munroe: 6:05
Yeah.
April Snow: 6:06
And to segue into your expertise, I want to ask you about your connection between being highly sensitive and how that's influenced your relationship with food over the years.
Josie Munroe: 6:19
Sure, yeah. So, like I said, I was about 35 when I found this out. So through my whole eating disorder and the recovery process, I was about 35 when I found this out. So through my whole eating disorder and the recovery process, I didn't know about any of this. It's only in hindsight that I can look back now. But I actually had a really healthy relationship with food and my body growing up and right up until when the eating disorder started.
Josie Munroe: 6:39
I was like halfway through college and there was just a lot of difficult experiences happening at the same time and I started eating less unintentionally probably, was depressed as I look back and lost some weight. And then something really strange happened oh, the less I eat, the quieter the world is becoming. It turned down the volume of the overstimulation. It turned down my undiagnosed anxiety and I felt really calm to some degree. I hesitate to use that word because of course it was arming me at the same time, but, gosh, like all eating disorders, they really help you until they don't.
Josie Munroe: 7:29
But the focus on controlling my food was super effective and I rarely felt overwhelmed because I was just numbed out and that was really addicting, that feeling. So that made choosing recovery when I finally did really difficult. You know, I had a lot of ambivalence, which is really common in people with eating disorders, because it's like, well, why do I want to go back to feeling really overwhelmed and out of control when I've got this thing? I just I did not know that I could be sensitive and balanced and peaceful at the same time, just did not know.
April Snow: 8:12
You'd never live that version of being sensitive and not knowing that you're highly sensitive. There's no awareness around what needs to shift awareness around what needs to shift. So you took control of that overwhelm, that anxiety, through your diet. And are we equating? Could we equate calm with numb? I heard you use those two words as you were talking.
Josie Munroe: 8:35
Yeah, yeah so numb, felt like calm to me at that time because I didn't know the difference but yeah it definitely made the world seem to run a little slower. The lights were dimmed a bit. I also had a starving brain, so it does that, but it felt, like I said, really addicting. I liked it.
Josie Munroe: 8:58
I wanted it to continue and, at the same time, really wanted to not be doing what I was doing. It ended up really destroying a lot of things for me, but, especially in the beginning, it was exactly what I needed unfortunately.
April Snow: 9:17
Right, that's the thing. It helps at some level. But then there's also that cost. Yeah, yeah, and you don't have to share this if it's not comfortable. But I'm wondering could you share a little bit about the cost? You said it started to harm you Could?
Josie Munroe: 9:33
you share?
April Snow: 9:34
generally what you mean by that?
Josie Munroe: 9:35
Yeah, absolutely, so it definitely affected my relationships quite a bit I pulled away from everybody that I loved.
Josie Munroe: 9:45
The eating disorder sort of takes its place as a companion sometimes and yeah I just I chose that over other relationships, sort of unconsciously but also consciously sometimes. And I was actually married at the time to my first husband through part of that eating disorder years and that marriage did not survive my eating disorder and in hindsight that was good for both of us, but certainly the eating disorder played a role in that really big role. And then I somehow made it through college and held down a job. I was what I would consider high functioning but also miserable, extremely depressed, wrestled a lot with suicidality from just having to live with that eating disorder.
April Snow: 10:37
Yeah, you were really it sounds like really in survival mode, yeah.
Josie Munroe: 10:41
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow: 10:44
And the disorder becomes the primary relationship in your life where everything else kind of centers around it. And it's again. It's a high cost to pay for relief. You have to lose so much just to get a sense of okay, can I not feel so much or not be feeling so much anxiety. It's difficult.
Josie Munroe: 11:06
Yeah, but losing what I lost was sort of the catalyst. It's difficult, yeah, but losing what I lost was sort of the catalyst. I was able to say, okay, well, going forward, I'm not going to be able to really form deep relationships with this eating disorder in tow, and if I want that, I've got to let it go you had an epiphany there.
April Snow: 11:26
Okay, something has to change.
Josie Munroe: 11:29
And thank goodness.
April Snow: 11:30
And thank goodness, yeah, yeah. What's that first step you take once you have that awareness? Okay, I need to shift something here. What do you do first?
Josie Munroe: 11:42
Well, for me it was getting help, yeah. Like actual therapeutic help. And I worked with a wonderful therapist who was recovered herself, and that was really powerful to me because I didn'tilles heel, so to speak, so you've got to manage it. And she said, no, actually you can be fully recovered and it can be fully behind you and you don't have to worry about it coming back. And that changed the trajectory of everything.
Josie Munroe: 12:23
And I am one of those people today who can say, yeah, I'm fully recovered. I know a ton of people who are fully recovered. It is possible, yes.
April Snow: 12:31
I mean, what a sense of hope. Oh, I don't have to constantly be carrying this around with me.
Josie Munroe: 12:36
Yeah, yeah, and when we don't believe that full recovery is possible, you don't really try as hard, you know you're not going to put your all into something that's sort of a mediocre outcome Of course I mean.
April Snow: 12:50
It'd be so discouraging to know I'm never going to get fully through this Right. Why should I work so hard or put so much into myself?
Josie Munroe: 12:59
Yeah.
April Snow: 13:00
But having that person, that therapist, say here's what's possible, you can step aside from this, you can heal. Yeah, need that so much mm-hmm. Absolutely so, now that you have these two layers of your experience having had an eating disorder, being highly sensitive person, and now working with clients in this space what link do you see between having the trait and then developing an eating disorder? Are there connections there?
Josie Munroe: 13:31
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. There are certain factors that will predispose somebody to an eating disorder. Hsps have a lot of those, but also factors that we call maintaining factors, which keep the eating disorder going once it's taken root. So also common with a lot of HSPs, and I'll go over a couple of each of those.
April Snow: 13:53
Yeah, that'd be helpful, thank you.
Josie Munroe: 13:55
Yeah for predisposing factors. One of the big ones is harm avoidance. Yes, being highly sensitive, we can really easily, with our depth of processing, spot potential areas of harm of harm and then what we might do to avoid that.
Josie Munroe: 14:14
And of course the feeling of harm, whatever it is, is very deep, very painful, and for a lot of HSPs harm avoidance starts to show up as self-doubt, which of course, as I know you and every other HSP has heard you're so sensitive, you're too sensitive, you're overreacting. It's not that big a deal. Of course we'll start to doubt ourselves and mistrust our own signals, so kind of piggybacking off of harm avoidance is perfectionism.
April Snow: 14:50
And those go hand in hand.
Josie Munroe: 14:52
The HSP can also really easily spot how something can be made better yes, better in quotes, yes. And to avoid that potential harm, they'll seek perfectionism, and sometimes that's through the way they interact with food, or will focus on a number on the scale. But perfectionism is so tricky because it's self-perpetuating and when your goal is actually something that's unattainable, you've got plenty of opportunities to beat yourself up under the guise of if I hate myself enough, I can turn into magically a version of myself that then I can love. Very dangerous game.
April Snow: 15:33
Very.
Josie Munroe: 15:34
Because that's not how it works. Right, right, yeah, and let's see. So one of the maintaining factors, like I talked about with my own experience, is that need for relief or distraction, and I think highly sensitive people are always going to be looking for ways to cope in this overwhelming world, whether they find healthy ways or not is another story.
Josie Munroe: 16:03
But food is a really easy coping tool for the management of food right. It's readily available and I want to say about that, like using food to cope is okay, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's important to have more tools than that.
April Snow: 16:24
Right, right.
Josie Munroe: 16:25
We need other options, yeah yeah, just like how distracting is a valid form of coping, but we want more than just distracting in our toolbox, right yeah, so that need for relief is definitely a big maintaining factor. Another one is isolation, and highly sensitive people don't necessarily isolate. But we have that need to take time to ourselves for sensory rest, just to sort of recharge. And if there's an eating disorder in the mix or starting to take root, that healthy alone time can be hijacked and turned into isolation, because an eating disorder really needs isolation to thrive and in that isolation is where it starts to become a companion of sorts, like we talked about earlier with the relationship piece. So somebody might want to get rid of their eating disorder but at the same time they feel compelled to protect it at all costs no, no matter what, because it's a companion in a lot of ways.
April Snow: 17:31
Which it sounds like you found yourself doing. That, you know, pushing others away, making that kind of the primary center to protect this tool. Even though it became maladaptive At first, it was really helping you.
April Snow: 17:44
Yeah, that makes sense and I could see how, as you're talking about this, you know finding relief, taking alone time, just kind of reframing those into different words. But those are things we're told and we know we need as hsps. So on the surface it could be tricky oh I'm just doing my self-care, but then that actually that could turn dark, yeah, be different. It could be a problem, and I could see how that could be a slippery road for folks.
Josie Munroe: 18:14
Right, yeah, I mean, there were several times where I can recall telling myself like, oh, I just need to do this to take care of myself. Yeah, and that's not what was happening? You get really good at not only lying to other people, but lying to yourself.
April Snow: 18:29
Absolutely.
Josie Munroe: 18:29
Yeah, absolutely.
April Snow: 18:31
Yeah, absolutely. And there's that shadow side, that part that ends up hurting you in the end. I want to just kind of break apart something you said in the middle there which I think is important. Actually, nice to hear that it's okay if food is used for coping sometimes. Yeah, okay if food is used for coping sometimes, yeah, yeah. How do we differentiate a healthy use of I don't know if that's the right word, but kind of a balanced use of food as coping versus maybe a problematic use of food as coping.
Josie Munroe: 19:02
How do we know the difference? Yeah, so the first thing, like I said, is making sure you've got other tools and being able to take a look at whether or not you're actually using those other tools. If you find that you're relying primarily on food or the control of food, that's a really good indicator and usually the first indicator. And then it's how is this relationship with food and that's one of the first things I like to explore with clients is your relationship with food and your relationship with your body. How is that impacting other areas of your life? So, if you find that you're turning to food to cope but maybe it's okay, but you're turning down opportunities to connect with people, that might be an issue.
Josie Munroe: 19:44
Yeah, that could be something to look at. Yeah, through the recovery process, you really learn to turn to people rather than your eating disorder behaviors, to get through life, which is really important, absolutely Right, needing to have those people you can lean on to co-regulate with and diversifying.
April Snow: 20:05
How are you taking care of yourself and making sure that you're not just leaning on food? That's, I think, an easy way to kind of check yourself. Yeah, am I just leaning on food or am I reaching out to friends, or am I using some of my other practices?
Josie Munroe: 20:21
Yeah, yeah. And another good tool to sort of assess that relationship there is to see how large the impact is. Like let's say, if you're struggling with compulsive eating and you're at like a 10 out of 10 of anger and rage one day and you start compulsively eating and suddenly you're down to a zero, that's a huge jump when other coping tools usually healthy ones aren't that big. You might go from a 10 to a 5 and that's wonderful. But if you've got this huge change, that also might be a clue that you're utilizing something that isn't great for you.
April Snow: 21:02
It's too drastic. Yeah, you mentioned compulsively eating and you also mentioned restricting. Are there other ways problematic eating can show up that we maybe we wouldn't think of?
Josie Munroe: 21:17
and celebrated in our culture. That's true. So you know, dieting is one of the first things people turn to when they want to get healthier quotations. And that's really scary because dieting is one of the quickest ways into an eating disorder. It sets somebody up so severely for really damaging that relationship with food.
Josie Munroe: 21:51
So we might be looking at happy, successful people and thinking, oh, they're just really disciplined with their food, but internally they're really rigid or very chaotic. Maybe they eat in secret or they're constantly going through a little Rolodex of numbers in their head. We just don't know that. You know, sometimes that shows up in compulsive exercise. So we might see athletes and go, wow, they're just so dedicated to their sport. But no, they're actually compelled to do this and that's an illness, right, right, it's really scary. And then we've got all these health fads. You know, juice cleanses and fasting, disordered eating can look like so many different things. So it's really. It can be hard to spot, not only as a clinician but for an individual as well. It's really easy to say, actually I'm fine, because everybody else in my friend group does this. No big deal.
April Snow: 22:50
That's true. If the people around you are practicing the same type of eating, it could be really easy to normalize it, but it sounds like you could get under the actual actions by looking at the motivation. What's happening in the big picture? Are you avoiding? Are you controlling? Is there something you're trying to kind of get right, so get perfect, and are you sacrificing other areas of your life to continue this?
April Snow: 23:19
yeah be causing some significant harm in the process great question to be asking, yeah exactly, yeah, exactly, and I appreciate you helping kind of tease this apart for the sensitive person. So HSPs could be very predisposed to falling into an eating disorder or dysfunctional eating because we're trying to reduce the amount of feeling or discomfort that we're having. The amount of feeling or discomfort that we're having and I've seen a lot of clients show up in my office who have a history of this right, whether it's well or currently happening, but they're using it to try to self-soothe right, try to get a sense of relief.
Josie Munroe: 24:03
Yeah, so we're often we can't fault somebody for that Exactly, we really can't.
April Snow: 24:08
It's hard to be constantly living in discomfort or overwhelm, but yeah, expanding what's available. So I want to move on to the next part of the conversation, which is how do we then support folks who are in this space and they're highly sensitive? So how does being highly sensitive impact the treatment process?
Josie Munroe: 24:31
Yeah Well, I think, first and foremost, there's a really harmful belief that a full recovery looks a certain way for everybody. That's not true, and this has overall gotten a lot better, I think, in like the last decade, but there's still a lot of work to be done in the treatment world. So just to give you a personal example when I was in treatment, some of the sensory issues that I had and still have with food were confused with intentional eating disorder behaviors and outside of the sort of the major restriction purging binging, when I talk about eating disorder behaviors that also includes what we sometimes call table behaviors. So that might be cutting food into small pieces, taking really small bites, eating quickly or slowly, not wanting food to touch. And for me it just happened to be that I have sort of a limit on how much of a soft food I can eat at once. Yes, when I was in treatment I had to restore weight.
Josie Munroe: 25:48
So I remember for breakfast, almost every morning, I would be given this huge plate of scrambled eggs plus some oatmeal, plus some other things, and when I would reach that threshold it was game over. Even when I felt like I wanted to continue eating, you know, I had my hunger cues back. I just couldn't do it. And I remember crying and saying, please, like, give me toast, give me an apple, give me something. I just couldn't do it. And I remember crying and saying, please, like, give me toast, give me an apple, give me something. I just can't do this anymore. And they would say I'm sorry, but like, that's your eating disorder talking. You have to push through that. And I didn't have the words then to say no, it's not, you need to pay attention to this. I would just cry and suffer through it. But I think you know this gets recognized a lot with the eating disorder ARFID which is avoidant, restrictive food intake disorder.
Josie Munroe: 26:39
That's where somebody will sort of say, oh, this person probably has sensory issues with food. But it can occur in all eating disorder presentations but it isn't necessarily looked for, so that gets missed a lot.
April Snow: 26:54
That's got to be incredibly problematic for a sensitive person because there are some very legitimate sensory issues that come up with eating, like you're saying, with texture, temperature, so many other pieces, right, and to have that be dismissed is, I mean, just perpetuating the invalidation we've experienced. Right, saying, yeah, you know this isn't what you're really experiencing, and then that mistrust, that self-mistrust, starts to build again. Yeah, and at that time you didn't know you were highly sensitive, correct by that time. Correct, yeah, right. Yeah, no idea, yeah, no, no, correct, yeah Right.
Josie Munroe: 27:28
Yeah, no idea.
April Snow: 27:29
Yeah, no, no language for that.
Josie Munroe: 27:32
Yeah, yeah. So one of the other problems with a typical treatment approach when it comes to working with HSPs if it's not individual therapy, a lot of people who have eating disorders are going to end up needing more than just 50 minute sessions once a week to get better. So treatment centers and programs generally are in a large group setting. So if you can imagine a room full of sensitive folks sitting together hearing about other people's eating disorder struggles, processing trauma together, mirror neurons are firing all over the place and not only that.
Josie Munroe: 28:12
But there's the tendency to fall into a comparison trap there. Sure, oh, you know, this person has had it so much worse than I have. Why am I sitting here with an eating disorder? I don't deserve this spot. I don't deserve this bed in this treatment center, you know my life isn't bad enough.
Josie Munroe: 28:31
And that's so dangerous, so dangerous, and it's exhausting, really exhausting, and along with what else is exhausting, is the sensory overwhelm that comes with exposure therapy, which is really natural in a treatment setting that you're exposed to what you fear multiple times a day. You have to get through that and most treatment programs are designed to be really packed. You've got several sessions, groups, activities back to back to back to back to back, so that leaves little to no downtime for sensory rest, for alone time and, generally speaking, somebody with an eating disorder is looked at as not capable of being alone because they're going to turn to their eating disorder, which I understand the importance of that, you know wanting to keep somebody safe from their behaviors. But at the same time I think we need to find a middle ground there.
April Snow: 29:30
Right Cause you mentioned. You know you mentioned your isolation can be dangerous. But then how do you get that processing recharge time that desperately need as an HSP, as a clinician who works in this area, is there anything you've found that helps to find that balance? How do we satisfy both needs of keeping attention on the person who's in recovery but also allowing their nervous system to get what it?
Josie Munroe: 29:54
needs. Yeah, I did a webinar about how to manage being an HSP if you go into residential treatment and I ended up creating a document that somebody could give to their treatment team of all the ways that they could support somebody. And thinking about back to my time in treatment, being able to go into a room maybe that's visible, but kind of separated from other people, or maybe outside sitting under a tree where somebody could see you through a window, but you still have that space to just breathe. I think it's really important and we're humans and to give somebody the benefit of the doubt that maybe they can be alone and be safe until you're proven wrong. I don't think it's fair to just assume that of everybody. It's really harmful, dismissive.
April Snow: 30:48
Right, it can be very dehumanizing to not be trusted, to be with yourself and I understand there's some of that that can be dangerous when you're in the recovery process. But yeah, you still need to be a human, be with yourself at least for a few moments. Just hearing your experience and thinking about the recovery process, you could just see it could be kind of looping back into dysregulation as you're trying to get healing. Just the sensory overload alone with the food textures and being in constant contact with people and maybe experiencing vicarious trauma through these other stories and then feeling like you don't deserve help yourself through these other stories and then feel like you don't deserve help yourself. This is a lot to process. It's a lot to physically manage, sensory wise. And can it ever?
Josie Munroe: 31:39
is yeah, it's tough, hard for everybody and really hard, I think, for sensitive folks. Yeah, and what's sad about that is and this goes beyond just highly sensitive people, but neuroddivergent folks in general can get left behind or they get labeled as noncompliant, which is really painful. Part of my sensory stuff in treatment was that my body responded to the increase in calories very sensitive to that by developing reactive hyperglycemia, and I didn't know really what that was then, but I was getting accused daily of purging and I wasn't.
April Snow: 32:20
I was sort of your model patient. As most HSPs are right Even to our own detriment. What is hyperreactive hypoglycemia?
Josie Munroe: 32:30
So it was just a reaction of my blood sugar, like when I was having suddenly an increased intake In between meals. I would get really shaky suddenly and and that was looked at as like, oh, you must be doing something wrong. Are you purging, are you exercising in secret? And I was not. I was doing everything I could to get better and that was really sad for me because I started feeling some anger toward the way my body was responding. I was sort of distrusting what was happening there.
April Snow: 33:02
Sure, I mean, your body is kind of getting you in trouble.
Josie Munroe: 33:07
Yeah, it was sensitive and it probably needed to work up to that intake a little bit slower.
April Snow: 33:14
Yes, absolutely, the process can be so rushed. I was just thinking about, as you're taking in more food and maybe gaining just a little bit of weight or just having different reactions in your body than you're used to as an HSP you're noticing all that as such a subtle level and how that could kick off a lot of anxiety or worry or emotion.
Josie Munroe: 33:33
Yeah, HSP is a really in tune or can be out there can be really in tune with what's happening Weight rise, the jump from hungry to totally full can sometimes be like that an instant drop of a dime yes, would you say.
April Snow: 33:55
That also contributes to this issue where we're noticing our body at such a subtle level like even just feeling slightly like we have a little bit more weight or something's off. Does that contribute?
Josie Munroe: 34:10
yeah, I would say that's another one of those both predisposing and maintaining factors and having sort of increased interceptive awareness yes really in touch with.
April Snow: 34:21
Oh like, I'm a little bit bloated today panic, right, and, and it could be at a level that another, if you weren't highly sensitive you wouldn't even notice that change in your body, but we would right, yeah, and that can set up kind of a chain reaction, yeah. So, josie, what else haven't we gotten to today feels important for you to share? We've talked a bit about your own journey and why hsps can be predisposed to struggling with eating disorders and kind of what the recovery process looks like. Some of the hardships I actually wonder could we talk about. Are there ways that HSPs could thrive or do well If we could talk about the flip side?
Josie Munroe: 35:03
in recovery.
Josie Munroe: 35:04
Yeah, I think that's one of the most important things is that when you can start to embrace your sensitivity, it opens you up to the gifts that are actually already inherent in you to thrive in recovery and in life beyond recovery. But as long as you're fighting it and trying to squash it, you can't really access those gifts. But typically, you know, an HSP is really good at taking a look at themselves and they're interested in that introspection, and that is really really helpful in the recovery process is to understand yourself, true, but to look at it through a compassionate lens and go oh, I see why I make that connection, or I see why I turn to this instead of that. Doing that with compassion is magical.
Josie Munroe: 35:58
And sensitive people with our empathy. If we can learn how to turn it around toward ourselves, it's so powerful.
April Snow: 36:08
Yes, it really is.
Josie Munroe: 36:09
We can give all that we give to others and turn that back in, especially as we're healing and recovering I think the one thing that I would want sensitive people to know about all of this is that you don't have to be any less sensitive to fully recover.
April Snow: 36:29
Okay, so you don't have to not that you could, but you don't have to change your sensitivity or how much you allow that to be expressed, to recover.
Josie Munroe: 36:40
Yeah, the eating disorder didn't develop because you were highly sensitive, although maybe it developed as a way to help you manage that, that you do not have to become any less sensitive to get better.
April Snow: 36:52
I think that's an important distinction, because we're saying that you know, hsps can easily fall into this as a coping tool, but there's not a direct connection. It's not that one goes with the other, it's just one path we may go down to try to take care of ourselves.
Josie Munroe: 37:09
Right.
April Snow: 37:09
Yeah, down to try to take care of ourselves, right yeah, now that you're on the other side, you're living as a healed person, which is so inspiring. What do you reach for now to support yourself? People, yes.
Josie Munroe: 37:24
People first and foremost. Yeah, nature is another one that I think. I mean I always knew that I loved nature, but I think it surprised me when I started paying attention to just how healing it could be. I like to turn to that taking a little 10 minute walk in the middle of my work days. Ah, I look forward to it so much. You know, a couple of years ago left Los Angeles and moved to Vermont and that was a whole new chapter in my sensitivity. I realized once I left the city how much I needed this quiet and this really close connection with the trees and the mountains and the seasons. Yeah, it was a whole new level of peace.
April Snow: 38:14
I love it. My wife and I. That's kind of our next plan, because I'm in California as well right now and we're like we want to go to Vermont, Just slow things down. That's so funny. It's kind of the vision we've been holding. But, yeah, we need that peace right, the rhythms right. I think that's really important for us to have those touchstones. And, yeah, we need that, that peace right, the rhythms right.
April Snow: 38:30
I think that's really important for us to have those touchstones and, yeah, there can be connection in nature, there can be healing in nature.
Josie Munroe: 38:40
Yeah, yeah, whether I'm alone or with other people, nature is a companion in and of itself.
April Snow: 38:47
Absolutely, it really is. You've given us a lot of hope today. Thank you. This is a topic that is important to explore in our community. I don't think it's one that's talked about enough.
Josie Munroe: 39:02
Yeah, I agree.
April Snow: 39:04
Yeah, and you mentioned reminding the sensitive folks out there that there is a possibility to heal without changing your sensitivity. Is there anything else you want to leave folks with?
Josie Munroe: 39:18
You can do it. Yeah, I know it feels really hard and maybe impossible at times, but it's not and your belief in yourself is really what's going to change that. That's right and you don't have to do what's going to change that. That's right, and you don't have to do it all at once. Little baby steps.
April Snow: 39:35
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, one step at a time, and as you share, it's a process, right, allowing it to unfold over. Time is important.
Josie Munroe: 39:46
Yeah, and if we think about you know we're healing our relationship with food or our body or both. That doesn't just end when you stop using behaviors. Right, I still have a relationship with food that I want to nurture and a relationship with my body that I want to pay attention to and honor. That is the definition of process, right there. That part's lifelong, not the struggle process right there.
April Snow: 40:12
That part's lifelong, not the struggle. That's it Right. The relationship continues. Yeah, it's a healed relationship. Yeah, sounds like more supportive relationship Totally. Yes, I love that. Well, thank you so much, josie. This is lovely. I just love connecting with you and learning about your specialty, and I know that you have a lot of helpful resources for folks. I'll be sure to share that your website, your social media. You have recovery resources as well. Can you tell listeners a little bit about your course?
Josie Munroe: 40:42
Yeah, so I've got a couple little courses out there right now and more always in the works because I found that that's really enjoyable for me. But there is one core workshop that I think is really helpful and that's called surviving to thriving understand your sensitivity, unlock your recovery. And that's going to go really nicely with our conversation today, because it takes a deeper dive into how sensitivity shapes needing disorder and how honoring your nature is really a key component of getting better. And that will actually, you know, that course will actually help somebody who might be in a similar spot that I was. Like I know I'm sensitive, but am I highly sensitive? And this course can help illuminate that as well. And it's ideal not just for people going through eating disorder recovery but for supporters as well if they want to learn more about sensitivity and how to support somebody.
April Snow: 41:38
Oh, that's wonderful. I mean, hopefully, then you're bringing people into your world and having those support systems helping you know, making sure that you're not isolating. I love that and maybe you can even take it alongside your support person. Potentially is to work together.
Josie Munroe: 41:57
That's my hope.
April Snow: 41:58
Yeah, I love that. That's such a great resource. So you're I love it, you're bringing the conversation right into the forefront, right into the fold, using it as a resource. Yeah, how healing is that? Into the fold, using it as a resource.
Josie Munroe: 42:11
Yeah, how healing is that?
April Snow: 42:12
So healing, and I want that you know for everybody that that is ultimately why I became an eating disorder therapist. Thanks so much for joining me and Josie for today's conversation. What I hope you're taking away is that it is possible to redefine your relationship with food and find other ways to soothe your sensitive nervous system and build connection. For more support, you can check out Josie's new course Surviving to Thriving. Understand your Sensitivity and Unlock your Recovery at yoursensitiverecoverycom or head to the link in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSP resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
