34: Navigating Dating Burnout as a Sensitive Person
With Rebecca Marcus, LCSW
Are you feeling burned out by the dating process or struggling to show up in your relationships? In this episode, I talk with Rebecca Marcus, LCSW about going at your own pace and:
• Caring for yourself when starting new relationships just as you would in every other part of your life
• Not comparing yourself to others when dating and choosing the right pace for you
• Slowing down to process and reflect throughout the dating process to understand how you feel about the other person
• The importance of honoring and speaking your needs with the other people in your life, even if they’re also highly sensitive
Rebecca is a social worker in NYC who helps Millennial women chill out, get confident, and trust themselves and their dating process, so they can find and keep the love they want. Growing up on Disney movies, rom coms, and fairy tales about Prince Charming that showed unrealistic expectations of relationships, dating, and love only led to chaos and confusion when she started dating. So for a decade, she’s helped millennial women navigate the confusing NYC dating scene, break toxic patterns, and create relationships and a life filled with meaning and joy.
Keep in touch with Rebecca:
• Website: https://rmpsychotherapy.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rm.psychotherapy
Resources Mentioned:
• Free Meditation: https://rmpsychotherapy.com/subscribe
• Dating Groups: https://rmpsychotherapy.com/group
• Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781954118157
• Highly Sensitive Person by Dr. Elaine Aron: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780553062182
• The Empath’s Survival Guide by Dr. Judith Orloff: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781683642114
Thanks for listening!
You can also follow "SensitiveStrengths" for behind-the-scenes content plus more educational and inspirational HSP resources:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
If you have a moment, please rate and review the podcast, it helps Sensitive Stories reach more HSPs!
This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Rebecca Marcus: 0:00
There's a sense of urgency because maybe we feel lonely, or my friend just got engaged, or they're married, or you see a lot of the comparison, and so I think when we're in a place of scarcity or urgency, I think that can definitely cause burnout.
April Snow: 0:22
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Rebecca Marcus about dating and being in a relationship as an HSP and how to not ignore your sensitive needs throughout the process. Rebecca is a social worker in New York City who helps millennial women chill out, get confident and trust themselves and their dating process so they can find and keep the love they want.
April Snow: 1:09
Growing up on Disney movies, rom-coms and fairy tales about Prince Charming that showed unrealistic expectations of relationships, dating and love only led to chaos and confusion when Rebecca started dating. So for a decade she's helped millennial women navigate the confusing dating scene, break toxic patterns and create relationships and a life filled with meaning and joy. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. Rebecca, could you start off by telling us your HSP discovery story? How and when do you remember realizing that you're highly sensitive?
Rebecca Marcus: 2:25
So I have gone on an off since I was probably a little kid like four, to play therapist different therapist and I think probably around 10 years old.
Rebecca Marcus: 2:40
One of the therapists that kind of like a family therapist gave my mom the book that like I think Rebecca is highly sensitive, so she gave her that book to read and then we didn't really talk that much about it. But then I remember in college finding the book and she's like, oh yeah, this woman like Kathy, she gave it to read about you. And then I read a little more about it and I was like, oh, that's interesting and I had always kind of felt sensitive and more curious about people's emotions. And yeah, I always kind of felt sensitive and more curious about people's emotions and, yeah, started diving a little bit more in college. And then when I re-found that book and took more intuitive healing and reiki healing and just kind of a more holistic practice and yeah, I was minoring in art and so just reading about the book and the different strengths and then the things that could be over stimulating, or yeah, it just resonated and then I picked it back up and come back and but, it definitely really resonated.
Rebecca Marcus: 3:32
And then I had also which I know is a little bit different, but read some of Judith Orloff's empath stuff and I know they're different, but just some of the things and the ways of understanding yourself and tuning into your nervous system and like the gifts that come with it when you have things organized yeah, I don't know the word I'm losing the word that I'm looking for but like supportive, that you really thrive. So it's been a process. And then also moving into being a therapist and kind of figuring out that direction with being a more sensitive person as a therapist, yeah, yeah, it's such a journey, isn't it Organic?
Rebecca Marcus: 4:12
yeah.
April Snow: 4:14
I love that it was introduced early on. You're the first person I've talked to on the podcast that their parents actually knew about the trait in Elaine's book early on. Wow, which is so fascinating that most people say I knew there was something different about me, but not knowing quite what it was. And how interesting that that seed was planted early on. But it sounds like do you find that it showed up during your childhood? Did it inform how your mom or your family looked at you or treated your sensitivity?
Rebecca Marcus: 4:43
Well, I mean, I think that my, like my mom was a little anxious. She was a single mom and, like I think more, didn't always know how to help me with soothing and comfort, hand shrooms and those kinds of things. And yeah, I think now as a parent to a toddler that has hand shrooms and like this kind of understanding dysregulation and the nervous system and it all kind of makes sense with being overstimulated and yeah.
Rebecca Marcus: 5:13
So I guess maybe sensitive in that way. But also I was reading some of the strengths about it as I got older. I was sort of like kind of like a high EQ or like having conversations with adults as a little kid and just being very empathic and things like that and just very interested in people and stories so and I always liked doing art and creative things. So, yeah, it's just interesting. So I don't know, I guess I probably did feel sensitive a lot and maybe I was told that.
April Snow: 5:44
But yeah, yeah. And essentially you said you were drawn to people's emotions and you had this rich inner life which I love. It's such a therapist.
Rebecca Marcus: 5:56
But probably also. Yeah, it's interesting Like looking back.
April Snow: 6:01
Yeah, yeah. What's interesting about it for you when you think about those early years?
Rebecca Marcus: 6:08
Yeah, I guess the way I'm describing it. Now I didn't have the language or sort of the insight to understand that then.
April Snow: 6:15
Exactly, yeah, this is, I think, true for a lot of us, when we finally have the language there's so much to make sense of. Yeah, language there's so much to make sense of yeah, when you look back and you said you really resonated with judith orloff's work and being empathic and maybe picking up on things in people's experiences that maybe other kids didn't or family members didn't, and just having this, yeah, this very distinct experience around your sensitivity, yeah, very rich yeah, yeah, I guess it's now.
Rebecca Marcus: 6:47
I look at it that way, but I don't know that. I looked at it as much. You know, like in the moment I was kind of anxious or not fully understanding certain things.
April Snow: 6:54
Yeah right, yeah, when I look back for myself too, I don't remember thinking oh, I'm sensitive when I was a kid definitely right. Yeah, it's interesting because I don't remember thinking that definitely had some big feelings and I was really curious and perceptive, but I never thought of myself as sensitive, didn't really have that language at all. So yeah, now there's a lot of kind of re -understanding those earlier experiences when I look back.
Rebecca Marcus: 7:20
Yeah, yeah, kind of integrating it with like okay, I understand this now, this is what was understood then, and I can hold space for both.
April Snow: 7:30
Yeah, exactly, and as you got older and started forming relationships with folks, how did your sensitivity, or how did being more sensitive, impact those experiences as you got older?
Rebecca Marcus: 7:42
Interesting, High school and middle school, I feel, are a harder time for social relationships. I just think about it now. I'm reflecting back a lot on that, like my inner teen, and I think like engaging, like I'm able to talk to people most people easily, but definitely I had experienced some of those like small talk being draining or people that were. Just now I realize it's like, oh, they're just maybe not so deep or we just don't connect on that, yeah, and having bad experiences with misattainment and then friendship being really close and having deep conversations. I think, yeah, in terms of romantic relationships, I feel like at crushes when I was, I definitely would have kind of a lot of fans I mean, I talk about it now which is how that can happen, and so I think that evolution versus more when I was a young woman, like dating, and understanding now what I see as dating burnout and why it's better to be intentional and tune into yourself and understand your needs and like less is more and that kind of thing.
April Snow: 8:48
Yeah, I know that that was kind of a longer answer this is helpful because you're you're highlighting a lot of, I think, the struggles HSPs go through, whether forming any relationship, wanting deep, meaningful relationships, not always being able to get them not just relationships, relationships, but friendships too but then often a lot of times feeling disappointed or unfulfilled, right Like yeah, find that, those close connections, then you have them.
Rebecca Marcus: 9:18
But I think sometimes I would experience, yeah, like more sensitive to rejection, I guess, or feeling left out, yeah, but I did find, even as a teenager kid, I would be friendly with like a handful of people, but I tended to have a few close friends that I would be engaging with more and so just understanding that now and it's interesting even, I feel like now at the time of my life, and just my friendships and the quality of that, this seems so much more, I don't know, just aligned and like the things that really matter. So it's, yeah, looking at it through the HSP lens, I think, is interesting for me.
April Snow: 9:55
Yeah, it is, and you mentioned being able to connect with a lot of different types of people. That's definitely been my experience, which always surprises, surprises me. I can kind of connect people would tell me a lot like I remember going to college and I went to a place in New Paltz.
Rebecca Marcus: 10:08
That's in up to New York but like Huffington Valley, I'm originally from Oneonta and then I went. New Paltz is like a little bit closer to New York City now.
April Snow: 10:17
I'm in.
Rebecca Marcus: 10:17
New York City. But yeah, and suddenly it was like a lot more people and it was like, oh, there's some people that I don't connect with.
Rebecca Marcus: 10:24
There's a lot more people, but I remember people disclosing to me a lot of things and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, and then just reading more about empaths, hsps and that like it kind of happens to them right and being mindful yeah of, like, how much you're holding or taking on and I definitely have read a lot of melody, bady, codependency kind of things that yeah, it's such a delicate balance of holding, facing empathic, but then not like, right, yeah, taking everything on or, yeah, getting drained, or maybe using it as a way to feel like in control or whatever if you're open to it.
April Snow: 11:03
I hear more about that.
Rebecca Marcus: 11:10
How does the control piece come in? I'm curious. I guess it's not in like a way of really manipulative, but I think with kind of more rejection, sensitivity or being a little sensitive to abandonment or things like that, and then feeling like oh, I'm very like nurturing and I can help people using it as a way to be like oh, they're going to want to like.
Rebecca Marcus: 11:25
I don't know like a less vulnerable way to bonds, which now that's something that's not fulfilling because it feels like it's not reciprocal. But yeah, I don't know if that's an HSP trait, but sometimes people see that in you and they're like, oh wow, you really understand me.
April Snow: 11:40
Yeah Well, I don't know if this is true, but I wonder if it's a way that we get value. And then leaning kind of too much into this is something I've definitely done where it's like oh, I can be empathetic, I can be caring, I can really see people, I can take care of their emotions, but then I can maybe over-identify with that Exactly Nothing is coming back in return, but it is safer.
Rebecca Marcus: 12:04
In some it's less vulnerable and that's, I think you know, younger parts there is like being in a more survival mode. But yeah, as you begin to kind of embrace and understand, it's like oh, that doesn't actually feel good and I don't need that.
April Snow: 12:18
Right, exactly Right. You need something to come back and feel that support, yeah, some reciprocity, yeah. What do we do if we find ourselves stuck in those relationships or maybe in that pattern of I'm always the giver? How do we kind of write the balance there?
Rebecca Marcus: 12:36
well and I think actually, like in dating with a lot of the women I work with, especially kind of near city, there's a lot of very successful, professionally successful, you know, and not very driven, like also kind of a little sensitive and anxious, yeah, but a little afraid to be vulnerable. Sometimes with dating, I see this and wanting to almost be hyper independent or control things or predict every single outcome, or, like you, I think it's a balance of being able to find some softness and vulnerability, while also, you know, like yes, yeah.
April Snow: 13:10
Welcoming in some softness and letting yourself be cared for sometimes.
Rebecca Marcus: 13:15
Even if you can do it yourself.
April Snow: 13:17
But when asking for help and yeah. Do you see that when you're helping clients in the dating process, that they often are the ones doing a lot of the emotional labor in the relationships, or giving maybe more than they're receiving, getting stuck in that role?
Rebecca Marcus: 13:37
Yeah, I mean it depends, I guess, on what stage they're at if they're in a relationship, versus if they are going on dates, single. But yeah, definitely see women that it's a little scary to be vulnerable or wanting to kind of control a lot of aspects or, you know, wanting being vulnerable and then feeling like nervous about it afterwards. Or, yeah, I tell people when they're very anxious about meeting someone, they haven't met someone yet. You know it doesn't end once you meet the person like all the stuff is going to come up too. It's kind of like a mirror. So being able to be in tune with that, understand what's your stuff with theirs, how do I communicate it?
Rebecca Marcus: 14:18
you know, where are differences in what we need and you know, even if you're dating another HSP like you might not always have the same needs at the same time or exactly the same preferences.
April Snow: 14:30
That's true. That's really a good reminder that even two HSPs are going to have differences to work through and might be going at different paces.
Rebecca Marcus: 14:40
Yeah, such a good reminder.
April Snow: 14:41
Yeah, you mentioned earlier about burnout. We talked about this already off the recording. But just how burnout can also show up in dating, which we only hear about burnout in work right. Could you say more about that experience of burnout in dating?
Rebecca Marcus: 14:59
Well, it's interesting because I guess I got interested in like mindfulness and burnout after working in agency, transitioning into private practice, but also seeing how you could still be burnt out in the private practice, and so I'm a speaker for like PE lectures on burnout and the helping profession and so just noticing some of the as I had created that before I really niched onto dating, I saw a lot of overlap and some of the things that I had been through.
Rebecca Marcus: 15:33
I mean, it's been a bit of time since I was like in that dating world but like initially what I was doing and then seeing what wasn't working and then things that I shifted and then seeing clients coming in when they were in this place of just misalignment and not really, you know, intentional, versus the ones that were yeah, and so I was like, oh, okay, like it's, it's pretty similar and some of the strategies that you would use to help are also kind of similar to and just sort of this interconnection of everything and also sometimes how we could hide. But I guess the difference sometimes like hiding behind work professionally like you can, I don't know. I feel like the personal and professional. It's like we want to have boundaries but they also like go back to one another.
April Snow: 16:14
Mm-hmm. Yeah Right, I mean these two are they easily overlap, right, the things that? You're seeing in dating versus work. You know putting so much into it. If I'm let's say I'm in the dating process, what would lead me to burnout in that? What are some of the things that you see like what am I doing that could make me feel burned out in my dating life versus work?
Rebecca Marcus: 16:39
so specifically for HF or anyone, really I'm just yeah, yeah. Well, okay.
Rebecca Marcus: 16:45
So I guess I would think that's a clarify, because I think I would say when you're going on way too many dates and it's not with people that are aligned like they're not a good fit, whether that means they don't have the same like values or like a vision for what they want, or they're just kind of.
Rebecca Marcus: 17:05
It's just not like personality wise or it's uncomfortable. You don't really want to be there but you went and you feel bad, like some of that stuff. But sometimes I have found, definitely for HSPs and more introverted, I definitely say like just less is more. But there are some people maybe that are a little bit more extroverted that sometimes, if they're a little anxious socially in terms of going out to them, just going out on a few dates to kind of like get things moving, can be helpful. So I think it's again it's like tuning into yourself, though, and sort of knowing, but I definitely think going out with people just because like like throwing spaghetti at the wall when you don't actually really know what you value or what you need, what your needs, are what worked in the last relationship what did?
Rebecca Marcus: 17:51
it what are maybe like kind of blind spot or there's a sense of urgency, because maybe we feel lonely or we feel like, oh, my friend just got engaged, or they're married, or you know, like you see a lot of the comparison. And so I think when we're in like a place of kind of scarcity or like urgency and we stay in that and keep taking like I need to do more and more and more, I think that can definitely cause burnout.
April Snow: 18:18
Sure, especially if you see others around you meeting milestones in a relationship, either starting a relationship, getting married, maybe having kids, and then chronically maybe feeling like you're behind.
Rebecca Marcus: 18:30
I work with a lot of clients that are in that space.
April Snow: 18:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that urgency amps way up, and then we're maybe pushing ourselves beyond our capacity for dating.
Rebecca Marcus: 18:42
And also I think I use a lot of. I mean, I'm integrative, I think, as you are too, but stuff around nervous system regulation and then also secure attachment like healing attachment, and it's like when we're in a place where we're burnt out and anxious and we go on a date we're not going to, we're not really in a place where we're safe and connected to really. You know, openly connect or show up authentically or feel like comfortable.
April Snow: 19:11
Yeah, that's true.
Rebecca Marcus: 19:13
You maybe need to do some grounding, some regulating first, so you can be clear-headed enough to think how am I feeling, how am I connecting with this person exactly in the moment and also ahead of time meeting at a place that like also works for you, like if you have a super long day and it's one thing if you've been seeing someone and you're really excited, but you're kind of meeting on first seats and it's like that's not really convenient for me, but I guess I'll go or like that's far I don't really, but but I personally I'm just like oh okay, I'll pick a place right near me. If it's not good, then I give myself a time.
Rebecca Marcus: 19:48
When I started doing that, I felt more like okay, well, I went. And then I think also sometimes again that quality over quantity, like really tuning in, okay, well, what is it that they actually need? What are my needs in a relationship? And being clear on what are like arbitrary things that are it's like based on an image, that like, is that really going to be a trait that meets a need of yours, or it's just sort of a status about how it'll look externally or something that. But it's good to have our own standards.
Rebecca Marcus: 20:16
But I kind of encourage people to look within and think about that and to be confident in knowing that. And I recommend do a call with somebody before you meet them, like if you can bet people, because less is more, and I think people get into like, oh, I'm going to miss out, and I this is where I think like the spirituality and letting go piece is. I find releasing that expectation and like attachment to the outcome to be okay, but like you're being intentional about it, so like you're just filtering it out. If it doesn't work out, okay, you're just getting closer to the next one, and when you're in that place of alignment, it just comes.
Rebecca Marcus: 20:53
I mean people always like to hear that, and so it's the more we tune into our knowing, like I, like I don't know just I really enjoyed all of the stuff I've seen with your work of even just knowing your schedule, or when you need a pause, or when you need a moment to regulate, or maybe you need time to yourself, or maybe that's going to be too much for you and putting yourself into a place where you're first filled up and regulated and then going out, dating or even showing up in a relationship. I tell people you don't throw these skills out the window, like, once you're in a relationship, you still have to be throwing up your cup regulating your nervous system communicating your needs, Like yeah.
April Snow: 21:34
Yeah, everything you're saying really resonates because you need to take care and consider your nervous system, your needs and the equation of dating. I love it You're saying like, familiarize yourself with where you're going, pick somewhere that's close. Maybe that'll help minimize any anxiety or energy that it takes to go on these dates If you can save some of that bandwidth. And then, yeah, giving yourself time to process, vet these people. It's okay to say no. It's okay to trust your gut if something's not feeling good. You don't have to like date arbitrarily just to meet a certain threshold or something like that.
Rebecca Marcus: 22:05
Yeah, and I think that also the same goes with. It's definitely good to have some outside guidance, but I think it's like being more intentional with not asking a million different people, because that can also cause some burnout or like confusion. So people that you trust, trust that you respect, they understand you, you're able to have conversations, um, I think that helps too.
Rebecca Marcus: 22:29
Yeah, just having a support system throughout the process yeah and yeah, and I mean in my practice we also do like some dating group, like group therapy, kind of psychoeducation, because I have found that also, like you're saying, the feeling of isolation people can feel a lot and so if you're like I just need to meet someone because everyone else has someone, you can also start to like you're not really tuned into what you actually need right.
April Snow: 22:55
So just coming back to yourself and having other people that are like-minded.
Rebecca Marcus: 23:00
They have the same intention. They get it like you feel. Okay. I definitely found for myself, having at least a few supportive you know, platonic friends, that safe relationships and we could support each other made a difference could you say a little bit more about?
April Snow: 23:17
what does that look like? Is that checking in before, after dates, dates? Is that getting advice? What does that look like?
Rebecca Marcus: 23:23
Yeah, I guess a bit of both, and also knowing that having people to do things with outside of just dating and feeling supported yeah, like encouraging each other, looking out for each other. I feel like that was helpful for me personally and I've seen with my clients which is why I created the dating groups was the ones that had more like positive friends aligned, I guess.
Rebecca Marcus: 23:48
Like in the same page as what felt like support. It was a lot easier to feel relaxed about dating versus people that felt like they were all alone and that feeling of loneliness and then that like urgency, I have to meet someone. I think it was harder.
April Snow: 24:04
Right right when. If you have friends in your corner it kind of softens that urgency yeah, like some kind of community right. Yeah, how amazing that you're doing groups. I mean, that is such a good support yeah, it's fun for me too.
Rebecca Marcus: 24:18
I ran a lot of groups when I worked in addiction treatment and I think I just put something a little different about group energy.
April Snow: 24:25
Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious Is that something you only offer for folks that are in New York, or is it something that is online?
Rebecca Marcus: 24:31
Well, we have like psychoeducation, ones that are more general to people out of state, and then there's I'm also listening to Florida and my associate is New York and New Jersey, so for like the more process groups and people in state, but then we have like psychoeducation where it's like workshops and stuff like that. Yeah, so it's been fun, yeah, and it's really nice Like I think also kind of the synchronicity that you see, the synergy and things that you see in a group is inspiring it really is.
Rebecca Marcus: 25:00
Yeah, you tend to see your own experience show up when you see in a group is inspiring.
April Snow: 25:03
It really is. Yeah, you tend to see your own experience show up when you're in community.
Rebecca Marcus: 25:09
Yeah, I love that.
April Snow: 25:11
So I have a listener question for you, if you're open to it. So this is about once you're in relationship and this person says you know, relationships are so important, as we both know.
Rebecca Marcus: 25:28
But the time and the energy needed to sustain them can be really overwhelming.
April Snow: 25:31
You know, when you're dealing with life, friendships, family. How do we find the energy to maintain these romantic relationships or build a relationship? If you're in the dating process, when you're more sensitive and maybe have less capacity, how do we find the time and energy for a relationship?
Rebecca Marcus: 25:46
That's a really good question. It sounds very reflective, you know, self-reflective. So I think it's definitely tuning into when you're depleted and still filling up your own cup and recognizing that the relationship, like your partner, is not going to be able to fill every single role for you Some stuff is you have to take care of.
Rebecca Marcus: 26:08
Some stuff might be a friend or like going to a yoga class or something else. And then I think being intentional about making time to connect, but also recognizing whether or not your partner is highly sensitive or not, recognizing whether or not your partner is highly sensitive or not, but kind of talking about like hey, these are things that sometimes I need a little more time or I was a little too social, like just communicating, I think, our expectations and needs and having an open dialogue with both people.
April Snow: 26:40
So important isn't it?
Rebecca Marcus: 26:58
Yeah, so important, isn't it? Different things, you know, like okay, maybe we need to schedule a babysitter for this date night, like, let's put our phones away for this dinner, the show, certain things, like being intentional about it, because they think we with life is overstimulating and overwhelming and there's a lot of stuff that we have. So finding that time to be able to ground and even doing some things, like together that are grounding, yeah, but I think paying attention if you feel depleted, like maybe it's just also thinking about maybe what can we simplify or clear out a little that's not as essential that might be causing, like, an energy drain yeah right, just looking at, what do we need to either sustain ourselves or come back together in relationship, and also like going back to do.
Rebecca Marcus: 27:45
Both people have a shared vision and shared expectations of the relationship, because if that's mismatched, yeah, yeah, right, that's a big deal.
April Snow: 27:57
Yeah, and I know people.
Rebecca Marcus: 27:59
it's vulnerable, especially in today's dating culture, sometimes to own, like what you want, or to be with the fear of owning people that are like, oh, I'm just looking for something casual. But then before they just told me they're like, well, he said he just wants to see, and I'm like, but you just told me you really want a commitment or a serious relationship. So it's a fear of like, well, I don't want to get rid of what I have, because then I'd really be alone.
Rebecca Marcus: 28:23
Or sometimes maybe somebody's like, they do like the person, but maybe it feels like there's false intimacy building or a lot of texting up front before you really met or a little love bombing Not that it's always bad, but sometimes we get excited with our hormones and chemistry and so I think, sometimes slowing it down if it does feel intense, and noticing that and kind of being more in tune, just you know, based on this person asking themselves well, how much time do you want to put into it? Is it the priority for you? Kind of exploring your own.
April Snow: 28:52
Yeah, that's a great inquiry too. How much do you want versus how much is expected and what's realistic? Yeah, these are great questions. I think there is a lot of pressure to do relationships in a certain way.
Rebecca Marcus: 29:05
I know, and I think it is a combination of, like our families, different generations. As we look at all the cycles of intergener gratification, I think we have kind of been absorbed a lot into the dating culture. Um yep, but in general, just the things that we see on tv and movies I mean, I've watched all of them too. They're fun. But I think having some distinguishing that like that's a 45 minute episode or whatever, that's like an hour and a half movie, like after they get together.
Rebecca Marcus: 29:45
There's work that has like you know, they don't just live happily ever after, right work and even in terms of like sex and intimacy and some of the, I think, expectations or things as relationships change or things are stressful or there's not times, and kind of just normalizing that things up and flow and that it's an ongoing thing and yeah, it's not a fairy tale.
April Snow: 30:07
I think you talk about this a lot like the rom-coms or the Disney movies, where everything looks a certain perfect way. That's not reality at all.
Rebecca Marcus: 30:16
Right. I mean I think you can have moments where you feel you know I don't mean to say it in a way that like it's not something that's meaningful, but I think it's like in general real life, I guess, like this person is asking does have different stressors or responsibilities, or you're tired or you're not feeling. Well, you know. So I think it's also learning how do we kind of coexist and co-regulate and navigate it like, communicate it and ultimately thinking about when you're dating. That I mean depending on what goals are, because I don't it like that's what I always people clarify your own goal, like if somebody wants to be casual or, you know, conventional non-monogamy, or I mean it really depends.
Rebecca Marcus: 30:58
I took my population I'm working with is more like monogamous, um, commitment, so. But again, it's like some people want kids and people don't. Some people could go either way and even those kind of things can definitely, you know, if you're not aligned with it. So I think just clarifying for yourself is important too and then thinking about like, okay, well, this is like a long-term thing. I'm also going to want to prioritize traits of a perk in 50, 60 years, like someone who communicates well, someone who's thoughtful, someone who can listen someone who doesn't have a short fuse or yeah, that's a great inquiry what type of person I would spend the next multiple decades of my life with, and what would be a fit for me and I guess it sounds almost like that's what I'm saying.
Rebecca Marcus: 31:43
It's like whatever works for each person. It's not that I force that on anyone, but I think a lot of people are saying that they're seeing this in in movies but they're not registering like oh right, exactly, yeah, the different pieces of puzzle.
April Snow: 31:58
As we we get closer to wrapping up, I'm wondering if there's anything we've left out that feels important to share with folks that are listening about dating relationships.
Rebecca Marcus: 32:07
As a sensitive person, I think, remembering because even I think my husband is relatively more sensitive I made him read the HSP book, the Judith Orr. But we're're also different and we have sometimes different preferences on what we want. Or some might be similar, but we might want alone time at different times, or we might you might want affectionate time when I don't, or like vice versa. And I think you know, obviously we're like a line, but maybe one person is triggered by something or it's not discussed and that I think sometimes being nervous speaker needs or this illusion of like our partner should know but they don't know. And so I think, tuning in, learning about your traits and what you need. Even I'm like, can we turn off these overhead lights? It's not as sensitive to them as I get started. I'm like I just need a little of the overhead light. I'm over-stimulated right now. Everyone, everyone's different, so that's why I think it's just communicating it and, again, like bringing in, like attachment, which I styled.
Rebecca Marcus: 33:12
I really feel are kind of fluid personally, but being even like, oh, like I feel nervous if I don't hear from you all day, even though I have my what my friend, it's like my husband's always. He never texts, but he hates texting.
Rebecca Marcus: 33:24
He doesn't like to really be on the phone so he's not always paying attention, but it's kind of her being like but I feel anxious not hearing from you, so could you let me know you're not going to be out Communicating things like that and then knowing for ourselves when it's like, okay, I'm irritated, I need to. I'm not expecting someone to read your mind. Yeah, we do.
April Snow: 33:51
I think, though, because we are very perceptive as HSPs, and I think a lot of times we want or we hope that other people will do the same. But even when you have two HSPs together, there's still communication that needs to happen moment to moment, even if you're perfectly aligned on your values and everything else's no things, and I think that's also it's like the myth of the one or whatever.
Rebecca Marcus: 34:15
That it's like oh, even with the rate percent, it'll never be hard and it doesn't mean it's not meaningful and it's not like rewarding and it's not the right person sometimes it's not, but yeah, I think having more of that, like this fluid kind of like, okay, it's gonna ebb and flow Like each day we're tuning into our needs, we're regrounding, yeah, just creating some of our own space. And I mean I think even I see this like people talk a lot about mom burnout too which is not my specialty, but I definitely.
Rebecca Marcus: 34:43
when I became a new mom, I definitely felt that and I think that some of that of like now my daughter's in daycare and I feel like I have my own time, and there can be feelings of like guilt or like, oh, I'm exercising, I'm doing this, but then I'm showing up like more filled up for her, and I think it's similar with a romantic partner right, filling up yourself, so then you have something to bring into the relationship and also the energy to communicate needs, boundaries, whatever it is.
April Snow: 35:12
Yeah, expectations, expectations, yeah. It seems like a lot of whether you're dating, whether you're in a relationship, is really supporting yourself and then really getting in touch with what your needs, your values, expectations are. I think these really core pieces.
Rebecca Marcus: 35:36
And I feel like that's also. I think it's buying the stuff that's not so aligned. So, whether it's extra stuff on your calendar that's like, oh, it just feels like I'm drained all the time and I don't have time for a relationship, or maybe going out with people. That's not aligned, yeah.
April Snow: 35:56
And needing to be thoughtful about that with your limited energy and bandwidth.
Rebecca Marcus: 36:03
Yeah, and I definitely have seen on your things. At least that you talk about is just normalizing it for yourself, like, okay, this is my capacity and like, with that, why do I want to prioritize? And you know, I think sometimes we can feel frustrated and I've seen you say that a lot and I like your surveys and you say like how many, what's your caseload, that you're comfortable with, Like you know, and even the comparison that we do to other people, or like yeah, we could ask ourselves the same question with how many dates can you go on a week?
April Snow: 36:35
So I have some clients that feel like they need to go on 10 dates a week to keep up and give themselves the best chance. I'm like, well, let's take a look, is that actually sustainable?
Rebecca Marcus: 36:44
Yeah, I know, it's that scarcity mindset. I've had my one friend the same one now when she was dating, but the one I said about, like the husband, doesn't like to be on his phone, he doesn't even have a smartphone Like he. Just he didn't, yeah, but I remember she got like a lot of dates but she was like more extroverted and she liked it. So that's what I'm saying, kind of knowing yourself.
Rebecca Marcus: 37:05
Knowing yourself, but if it's for a person and it feels like they're still coming in like this. It's kind of like okay, is this actually helping?
April Snow: 37:13
right, because if you're showing up to dates dysregulated, maybe resentful for being there, but you think you should that's not gonna go well, yeah, exactly yeah, yeah, thank you for all this.
April Snow: 37:25
I mean, I think it's a reminder for sensitive folks to honor your needs even in dating, and a lot of the ways that you're taking care of yourself in your personal life at work can also show up in your relationships. There's a lot of crossover which I hadn't really put together, and I really appreciate the burnout piece because that's, I think, really important for us to think about how can we make dating sustainable and fulfilling and our relationships.
Rebecca Marcus: 37:47
Yeah, and I think also that you were saying just in terms of your own career and pivoting, and I think, looking at relationships and dating and our lives, as you know, we want to have some structure and direction, but kind of knowing that it's going to be a little bit fluid and it will ebb and flow, and having to checking in with ourselves. Yeah, yeah, what?
April Snow: 38:09
just as a maybe a final thought. What could checking in with ourselves? Yeah, yeah, what? Just as a maybe a final thought what could checking in with ourselves? In dating look like Is there something that you've done or you share with clients as a way to take a baseline.
Rebecca Marcus: 38:22
So I guess how you feel on the date, like are you feeling comfortable? Do you feel like conversation flowing? Are you feeling heard? Heard, you know, are they listening? Yeah, just giving yourself a little time after, like you don't always have to immediately call someone, just letting it settle for a little bit. Or also, if it's really feeling uncomfortable, and like to trust that too yes, exactly, give yourself time to process as an HSP.
April Snow: 38:52
It might not be apparent in the moments, but also using all the nonverbal information, you're picking up the emotion, what's happening between the lines, how you feel when you're with that person. There's a lot of information there that you could use Totally.
Rebecca Marcus: 39:08
Yeah, and I think also still taking time to do other things that are fun or enjoyable for yourself, like self-care right, don't throw everything else out to date, don't lose yourself.
April Snow: 39:23
I just want to thank you so much for this conversation. I feel like thank you so much. It was so wonderful, it was so fun. So I know I'll be sure to share your website, your Instagram. I know you have a free meditation for folks who are in the dating process, so I'll share all that in the show notes.
Rebecca Marcus: 39:41
Okay, wonderful. Thank you so much, April.
April Snow: 39:52
Thanks so much for joining me and Rebecca for today's conversation. What I hope you will remember is that you can go at your own pace when dating or starting a relationship, and that your needs are just as valid as your partner's. Just don't forget to let them know what those needs are. And for more support in the dating process, you can visit Rebecca's website for a free meditation and support groups. Links are in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSP resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
