17: Setting Better Boundaries to Honor Your Sensitive Needs
With Dr. Sharon Martin, DSW, LCSW
Are you exhausted or resentful from constantly putting your needs aside? In this episode, I talk with Dr. Sharon Martin about setting boundaries and:
• Accepting your sensitivity and your basic human needs for rest as a precursor to setting boundaries more effectively
• Distinguishing between direct and indirect boundaries
• Benefits of communicating your needs, setting limits, and compromising in relationships
• Keeping boundaries straight-forward instead of overexplaining
• Empowering yourself to make changes when others aren’t able to honor your limits
• Overcoming boundary violations and strategies to get your needs met when you receive pushback
Dr. Sharon Martin is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, psychotherapist, and author specializing in helping adult children recover from difficult childhoods. She identifies as a Highly Sensitive Person and a recovering perfectionist. Sharon is the author of three books: The CBT Workbook for Perfectionism, The Better Boundaries Workbook, and The Better Boundaries Guided Journal.
Keep in touch with Sharon:
• Website: https://www.livewellwithsharonmartin.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr_sharon_martin
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sharonmartinlcsw
Resources Mentioned:
• The Better Boundaries Guided Journal by Dr. Sharon Martin: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781648482755
• The Better Boundaries Workbook by Dr. Sharon Martin: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781684037582
Thanks for listening!
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Sharon Martin: 0:00
My inclination would be that I'm supposed to say yes, that's the right thing, that's the good thing to do. Wanting to make other people happy, not wanting to let them down, felt like that's what I should do in these situations, but it took me a long time before I it felt like it was okay for me to say no, no me to say no.
April Snow: 0:35
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, April Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Sharon Martin about why boundaries are a necessity for sensitive people, how communicating your needs protects your energy and preserves the quality of your relationships, and what to do when someone pushes back on your boundaries.
April Snow: 1:09
Dr Sharon Martin is a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist and author, specializing in helping adult children recover from difficult childhoods. She identifies as a highly sensitive person and a recovering perfectionist. Sharon is the author of three books the CBT Workbook for Perfectionism, the Better Boundaries Workbook and her latest, the Better Boundaries Guided Journal. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, TikTok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. So, Sharon, can you talk a little bit about your relationship to your sensitivity?
Sharon Martin: 2:24
Yeah, I would say at this point I feel good about it. I think so many HSPs. It's been a process to get there and to learn. I think I would say acceptance of both the benefits and the challenges that it brings to my life and truly, I think my story is probably very similar to a lot say so, that feeling of there being something wrong with me and that it was something that needed to be fixed, I think was a lot of the messaging that I got as a kid is you need to change this about yourself. That I got as a kid is you need to change this about yourself?
Sharon Martin: 3:27
And, of course, the things that people would say again, I think very common you need to speak up more, you need to be more assertive, you need to talk more, you need to raise your hand more.
Sharon Martin: 3:35
And none of that was helpful, go figure, and none of it was affirming it was all just. This is a bad trait, a bad quality about you, and I think, almost as if it was something I had control over, that I could choose to be different. And I think that's part of the acceptance piece is learning that this is very fundamental. It runs through everything that I do and how I show up in every aspect of my life and it's not going to change. Like I was saying, there's definitely benefits. There's certainly challenges that come with that as well, but on a certain level I just say, okay, this is part of who I am and it definitely feels more freeing to just embrace it and name it and is I'm a sensitive person and sometimes get out in front of it and say you might hear a lot of emotion in my voice or I might tear up and that's just totally normal for me because that's who I am.
April Snow: 4:35
I love that you write that as a story of a herd, now that they're growing up. You knew something's different about me. I'm more sensitive, I'm more emotional and getting that message that you need to change it, be more of this, be less of that, fix yourself, essentially, put that sensitivity to the side. But then you realize this isn't going away. This is how I was born. Yeah, and I appreciate you saying I'm going to get out in front of it. I'm curious what that looks like.
Sharon Martin: 5:02
Yeah, that's just like. What I was saying is, I think, letting other people know instead of trying to change it or hide it I think hiding it was the other big piece was trying to hold it all in and not show emotion, which literally I cannot do. No matter how hard I try, I still can't. I'm in my 50s and so I'm not going to master not having emotion about things that I feel very strongly about, which is a lot of things, apparently, and I think having a sense of humor about it sometimes helps as well. And again, I think this is super common. It just becomes a running joke and I don't mean this in a bad way, but in my family that my kids will be like we're watching a movie and they'll look over and they're like are you crying? Are you crying? It's because I always cry and right for me to just be like you know what. Who cares?
April Snow: 5:57
Exactly what's wrong with crying.
Sharon Martin: 5:59
Exactly, I have a lot of emotions about things and that's fine. But, yes, again, if I can keep a little bit of humor about it when it's appropriate and keep it light, and obviously that's not always the appropriate response, but sometimes that works and, like I was saying other times, just acknowledging it, I don't know if you ever have this experience April, but sometimes with clients, when I feel what they're saying very deeply, to let them know so that they don't then feel like they need to not be sharing very emotional content because I look upset right. So to be able to say this is part of who I am, it's part of what makes me a good therapist. I can feel what you're feeling very deeply and I'm deeply touched by it. But I also know how to take care of myself and so if you see a few tears, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with what's going on here. That's just me being a sensitive person.
April Snow: 6:54
Yeah, and normalizing having emotion for a lot of different reasons, and my wife and I do that too, because she's also highly sensitive. Are you crying? Are you crying?
Sharon Martin: 7:02
We've got to check in with each other. Somebody's always crying. Somebody is always crying.
April Snow: 7:06
Exactly, and yes, and also in our work, letting people know I'm feeling moved by what you're sharing, or I'm feeling this with you or sometimes for you, and then just taking the stigma away from that of having emotion in different moments. Yeah, so you mentioned that you're in your 50s. Now I'm curious, at what point did you realize? Oh, I'm highly sensitive. I'm not just sensitive, I have this trait.
Sharon Martin: 7:31
Oh recall, I'm gonna guess in my 30s, I don't know, but I mean. I truly do remember reading Elaine Aron's book and it being like holy cow. This is just so affirming and it's like the switch was flipped and I was like, wow, where has this been all my life, and why didn't anybody tell me this? Yeah, it was into my life before. I don't know exactly when she wrote that book, but it's been a while now since I've read it. But I was definitely not young when I read it.
April Snow: 8:04
Yeah, I think same here. Most of us found out much later in life and I've heard from folks now coming to me I'm 50, I'm in my 60s, I'm in my 70s and I'm just finding this out and we usually don't have it at a young point in our lives, an early point in our lives.
Sharon Martin: 8:20
Yes, and I think, like you were saying, that's one of the wonderful things about us being able to talk about it. Is that hopefully this will be better for the next generation. Is that, as adults now become more informed and aware of it, then they can notice it in their children, I think, and take a different approach to it.
April Snow: 8:42
Absolutely. They can have a different experience with less to undo. Hopefully, hopefully, yes. So I want to dive into talking about boundaries. I know this is something that you've written books on. You have a new boundaries journal coming out, or it's actually already out, so I want to dive into this topic with you because I know it's an important one for HSPs. We tend to struggle with boundaries a lot. It can be conflict averse, but also really essential. So when you're highly sensitive, why is it more?
Sharon Martin: 9:13
difficult to set boundaries. Why do we struggle with it so much? Yeah, I think you touched on this first piece is that setting boundaries also often involves being assertive.
Sharon Martin: 9:23
It often involves us speaking up and saying I need something in this situation, or maybe even asking somebody else to make a change. And that is a vulnerable thing to do, really for everybody. But if you think about when you're a sensitive person and you are now doing something that runs the risk of another person ignoring your request or your need, rejecting you, disregarding what you have asked for, criticized you for asking for something or making a request, right Again, very painful experiences for everybody, but for us it's magnified. So of course we want to avoid those situations. Right, that's just human nature.
Sharon Martin: 10:23
Is that if I can anticipate that something painful might be the outcome, I'm going to not do it. If I have a choice, I'm going to play it safe, I'm going to be quiet, I'm going to try to avoid any emotional pain or relational upheaval here by trying to just keep the peace and go with the flow. Yeah, so I think that ultimately, is we're going to try to avoid painful situations that we're anticipating might happen. And I think here's where we get into trying to undo some of that is that sometimes we are thinking that's much more likely to happen than it is, or not understanding that there's different approaches we could take to setting boundaries and I know we'll talk more about that will help us reduce the likelihood of that.
Sharon Martin: 11:16
Of course, we can't ever completely, you know, get rid of any possibility of there being a rupture in a relationship.
April Snow: 11:24
Yeah, we can't avoid that Some kind of emotional pain.
Sharon Martin: 11:27
Right, Because we all know relationships are going to involve some level of risk, right yeah?
April Snow: 11:35
We are trying to protect ourselves from those deeply felt criticisms or being ignored. But you said something interesting. We're trying to avoid something we're anticipating. It may not actually happen.
Sharon Martin: 11:50
Yeah, Sometimes that comes from. We've had previous experiences with setting boundaries that didn't go well, and so we actually have past experience that it was a painful experience for us. But the other thing is again, this is just a very common human experience is that we will anticipate something negative as a way of protecting ourselves.
Sharon Martin: 12:15
It's almost like a self-protective mechanism that we have, we're going to think it's more likely than it actually is right, that negative experience, that, like we said, it's not that there's no possibility, but in my mind sometimes I go into the situation thinking it's 100% likely that this person is going to be angry with me if I say something, when maybe the possibility is really it's 15% likely that they're going to be upset with me and 85% chance that they're going to be okay with it or we can resolve it. So when we magnify the negative possibility, then it's easy for us to talk ourselves out of doing it.
April Snow: 12:58
Of course, Right, I can just think if you have one negative boundary setting experience, it may then impact your ability to set any other boundary going forward, just because we remember that moment so intensely, but yet then we aren't taking care of ourselves. What are some of the consequences of getting stuck in that anticipation of not setting the boundary? What have you seen?
Sharon Martin: 13:25
I think about boundaries ultimately as a way to get your own needs met. So if you don't set boundaries, you don't get your needs met Right. And again I think this can be an additional barrier, for at least some of us is feeling like perhaps our needs aren't really that important.
Sharon Martin: 13:47
They don't matter that much. And again, if we can convince ourselves of that or somebody else has convinced us that is the truth, then again, why am I going to go to all this effort to try to get my needs met? But the problem is, if we go through life without feeling like we have any needs, or we should have any needs, and we can't ask for anything, then we're very unfulfilled and unhappy ultimately, because everybody has needs and I think, especially if we think about this in terms of our relationships are not going to work well, we are not going to be happy in those relationships and feel like they're satisfying. Often what happens is we have one-sided relationships where it's all about the other person's needs being met and ours are not being met, and ultimately what happens is we start to get exhausted, burned out and resentful.
April Snow: 14:46
Yes, we're doing something that we think is protecting our relationships, when it's actually tearing them down.
Sharon Martin: 14:52
Yeah, that's so key is that again we think, oh, this is a really nice thing that I'm doing. We get into this people-pleasing, I want to make you happy and I want to make sure that your needs are met and I'm going to take care of all of that for you. But really, if this is a relationship that the other person truly cares about you as well, they really do want your needs to be met as well.
April Snow: 15:18
Yes, it's true. They want you to take up space in the relationship and they also don't know what you need unless you're able to communicate it.
Sharon Martin: 15:27
Absolutely. That is another good point. That sometimes us not speaking up causes different relationship problems because we have that expectation is you should just know and why aren't you doing the things that I need in this relationship If I never communicated it? It's really not fair for me to expect my partner or my friend to know what it is that I need.
April Snow: 15:51
Exactly. I know we're so intuitive and we notice so many little subtle details. I think we oftentimes expect other people to be able or willing to do the same, but not everyone is able to do that.
Sharon Martin: 16:03
Yeah, I think that's a great point, especially for HSPs, that we tend to be more tuned in to other people's needs and emotions than the average person. So again, it is an unfair expectation for us to have. But I would say, even in relationships where neither of the people are HSPs, that it's just it's very hard to understand other people's thoughts and needs. Like surprisingly, I have been married a long time and truly it just seems like at this point we should understand each other better than we do.
Sharon Martin: 16:38
And it never ceases to amaze me just how different we still think about things. And so again, I think there's just this normal piece of you know me, you should know this about me, but no, it's not a problem. Again, it's just a reality, I think, of relationships is that we are much more aware of ourselves, our own thoughts, feelings, needs than anybody else is ever going to be able to do.
April Snow: 17:03
that yeah, I appreciate you saying that it's not a problem.
Sharon Martin: 17:08
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that it's not a problem. Yeah, again, I think it's just a false expectation that you think, oh, after all these years, you should know what I think about that or how I feel about this, or what I want in this situation, but it just doesn't pan out in reality.
April Snow: 17:22
And people are always shifting moment to moment. You may know someone generally, but you have no idea what's going on in that particular moment, what they went through that day, what they're needing that instant. Yeah, that's always good to check. Yeah, I'm curious if you could share an example of a boundary that you've benefited from in your own life, maybe in your personal or your professional relationships or many.
Sharon Martin: 17:47
Yeah, right there's so many I thought of a whole list.
April Snow: 17:51
I'm all ears Okay.
Sharon Martin: 17:55
Yeah, lots of different kinds of boundaries and I can just use a couple of examples for me, but maybe it's helpful because it can help us think about different kinds of boundaries that other people might need as well.
Sharon Martin: 18:07
So the way that yeah, that'd be great these are kinds of boundaries that I would set with myself so that I can get a particular need met. If I think about how much sleep do I need in order to function well, then I need to set certain boundaries so that I can make sure that I am going to get a full eight hours of sleep.
Sharon Martin: 18:43
So that is going to bed at a regular bedtime and getting up at the same time every day. Again, understanding that, doing that, setting those limits for myself, not letting myself watch TV until midnight or whatever, turning off your phone it can be different kinds of things that you do for yourself, but again, realizing that I need to put some limits out there for myself so that I'm going to be able to function at my best. So that's one kind of boundary that I need to put some limits out there for myself so that I'm going to be able to function at my best. So that's one kind of boundary that I might set for myself. And then we can think about also boundaries that we need to set with other people. So those are those limits and expectations that I set with other people again, so that I can get a particular need met.
Sharon Martin: 19:28
So that's things like I needed to learn how to essentially learn how to say no to people. Again, it's very common, a lot of us struggle with that. If somebody would ask me to do something or invite me to something, my inclination would be that I'm supposed to say yes, that's the right thing, that's the good thing to do. Again, wanting to make other people happy, not wanting to let them down, felt like that's what I should do in these situations, and so it took me a long time before I felt like it was okay for me to say no either just because I didn't want to do something or it didn't work for me, it wasn't something I was interested in, I was tired.
Sharon Martin: 20:14
I think so much of our reluctance here is feeling like if I'm going to say no, I need to have a quote, unquote good reason for saying no. And this was really helpful for me to shift this from feeling like I needed to have this socially acceptable reason, just feeling like I needed the reason that was valid for me and it really wasn't about other people needing to understand or accept. The reason and again, I think this is important for people who are highly sensitive is just understanding that your needs are going to be different. Yes, so if I know that I am going to, for me to go out two evenings in a row or something like that, it's like just not good for me, and so I just know that about myself, and so I need to say no to one of those events or invitations and to have that be okay and I don't necessarily need to explain that to other people or get their stamp of approval, but it's okay to just say that doesn't work for me or I'm sorry.
Sharon Martin: 21:26
I'm not going to be able to make it or something along those lines, getting away from feeling like they need to understand and it needs to be this reason that maybe everybody else gets, and I think there's a lot of judgment too that we get feeling like, oh, you're supposed to do all of these things, yeah, and then we do it to ourselves, right? What's wrong with me? Why am I not wanting to do this or why am I not being helpful or going out of my way to do this and to honor that? We have a different set of needs.
April Snow: 22:01
Yes.
Sharon Martin: 22:01
Your unique individual needs are perfectly valid. It's worth making sure that those are met and you don't have to sacrifice that just for somebody else to be happy or to do what they want you to do.
April Snow: 22:15
It's so true. I think that's so important to recognize. You have a different set of needs. You have to really look inside yourself. That's where the compass should be oriented. But yeah, we can internalize these expectations, these judgments, or at least the perception of judgment. It may not actually be there. You mentioned starting with yourself. Is that the best place to start, with boundaries? What can I do that doesn't involve anyone else? Can I go to bed early? Can I turn my phone off?
Sharon Martin: 22:46
It just seems like it's a less pressured place to start, would you say that's true, I do think it is a good place, I think for those reasons because you have a lot more control over it and there isn't that feeling of vulnerability, of how are other people going to react, or less. You could still have some of that, but I think less. But I think the other piece of that is it's going to be helpful because if you're making sure that your physical and emotional needs are met with some of those basic things like sleep and downtime and eating and I don't know things of that nature, you just tend to feel better in general. And I think if you're feeling better, then you're going to have more stamina, more energy to do some of the other kind of boundary setting work that you need to do as well.
April Snow: 23:38
Yeah, it's true. The more tired I am, the harder it is to maintain a boundary.
Sharon Martin: 23:42
Yeah, to do anything right.
April Snow: 23:44
To do anything.
Sharon Martin: 23:45
Exactly so. I think that's always. Solid advice is, if you can take care of some of those basic needs first, then everything else is just a little bit easier.
April Snow: 23:56
Yeah, it's true. And just to remind yourself to get enough sleep right, to just take care of, get some basic downtime, it makes a big difference. Can you talk a little bit more about working with the judgment? So you talked, you talked about. You know there's the external judgment, but then we internalize it. How can we work with that when we're telling ourselves I don't have needs or I'm supposed to do this? That's, that can be a big barrier to setting a boundary. How can we even start to work with that?
Sharon Martin: 24:27
I start with trying to normalize having needs, and in my books I think in both of them there is a list of universal human needs and that just helps people remember that this is something that everybody experiences. So again, everybody experiences. So again, whether it's the need for rest or it's a need to feel respected or cared for, everybody has those same needs and wanting to have them met and doing things to try to get them met is important and it's normal and there's nothing wrong with you. So that's a good place to begin is just to recognize that this is, across the board, this is not something that's wrong with you and this is not a deficiency on your part that you need eight hours of sleep or that you want to feel respected in your relationships.
Sharon Martin: 25:28
And once we can understand that piece of it and really say, okay, my need is valid, then you can start to take the steps to try to get that need met. And again, that might be with somebody else or on your own, because even if we're talking about going to bed, setting a bedtime alarm and going to bed on time, you need to feel like that's important, that's valid for you to prioritize that need, because if you don't, again it's easy to get into feeling like, oh, maybe I should be doing something else for someone else and going down a different path and then ultimately that's not going to lead to good results for anybody really.
April Snow: 26:11
No, it does come back to that acceptance piece. These are basic human needs. They might vary slightly if you're highly sensitive, but we all need sleep, downtime, respectful relationships, connection. There's nothing wrong or different about you for needing those.
Sharon Martin: 26:26
And again, even remembering that the HSP trait is just a normal variation, I think is really helpful and affirming, because there's nothing wrong with you, Even if you say I need 10 hours of sleep and other people need seven. Oh, there must be something wrong with me because I need extra sleep. This is a normal variation and it is true for you and there's really nothing you can do about it. So if we can accept that I'm going to function better if I get 10 hours of sleep, then let me take the steps that I need to make sure that happens.
April Snow: 27:04
Exactly, and you may be a subset of the population, but you're still a. You're part of the 20 to 30% of other people that are needing more sleep or needing more downtime, who are more sensitive, who are more emotional. Yeah, can we normalize that?
Sharon Martin: 27:20
Yeah.
April Snow: 27:20
And then if from there we can build on top of that.
Sharon Martin: 27:24
Yeah, to me that helps a lot, and I imagine it does for other people, cause I think 20 to 30%, that's a pretty good chunk, that's a lot. We're not talking about like 1%. If it's at 30, we're almost at a third.
April Snow: 27:36
Exactly.
Sharon Martin: 27:37
A quarter to a third of people, and it's not bizarre?
April Snow: 27:41
No, not at all. It's just a matter of realizing that, oh, this is a normal trait and not alone here, even though people have tended to maybe push it aside or try to ignore it or subverse it, it's here, not going away. Yeah, so we talked about some of the types of boundaries. Let's say, okay, I've gotten to this place of at least some acceptance.
Sharon Martin: 28:07
Mm-hmm.
April Snow: 28:08
When I'm setting boundaries with other people. What could that sound like? So, if I'm saying no to that second social invite, or I'm saying no to someone wanting me to hop on the phone with them, or whatever it is that's taking my time, what could that sound like for folks who are really struggling to know how to set a boundary?
Sharon Martin: 28:29
Yeah, I think one thing to remember is setting boundaries can be done in a way that is kind and gentle. This doesn't need to be harsh and demanding. Again, sometimes I think boundaries get a bad rap because people think it's a demand, sometimes it's a request, but a request is not a demand and we want to be direct and clear about what it is that we need or what we're going to do or what we want the other person to do. But again, we can be polite and kind about that.
Sharon Martin: 29:05
Delivery, yeah, and I think if we can shift in our mind away from this is a kind of a mean thing to do or that demanding thing for us to do, and we don't need to over-explain the boundary. Again, this is going to change a little bit depending on the situation and the relationship that you have with the person, but I would say a very common difficulty that people have is they feel like they need to justify the request or when they're saying no, and then this kind of creates a problem where then the other person not always, but sometimes they will then say, oh, let's just say you said no, I can't go out because I don't have a babysitter, and then, if that's not, that might be true, but maybe what's really going on is you also feel like I was out like last night, and so I don't want to go out again.
Sharon Martin: 30:01
And so now I've said I don't have a babysitter, and they said, oh, my daughter could babysit for you. They start offering solutions, or they just have a criticism and they pick apart the reason that you have given, and then now we're into this mess. That, I think, is what we all are afraid of getting into, and so it's easier if we just stick to a simple phrase. I'm sorry, that's not going to work for me, or I'm overcommitted right now, maybe another time, or I've got a lot on my calendar. Let's circle back to this. Whatever you can think about, just simple phrases that work for you. But these kinds of things often work in many different situations because they're pretty generic. One of my favorites is really just unfortunately, that doesn't work for me, because how do you argue with that?
April Snow: 30:51
It's telling you.
Sharon Martin: 30:51
it doesn't work for me. I didn't really explain to you why, so there's not much of an argument that we can have over it. I love that.
April Snow: 30:59
Keeping it simple, being direct. I remember I was in a workshop with Elaine Aaron and she said don't give people an opportunity to turn your no into a yes, which is what you just illustrated. If you say I don't have a babysitter, someone is. I've got a solution to that. You can come out now, yes, when really you're tired or you just don't want to. You talked about that earlier. Sometimes you it's just not interested.
Sharon Martin: 31:21
You don't even need a reason to justify that is a reason that is the reason I don't want to and again, depending on the relationship with you that you have with the other person, you might be okay to say that, or again it might be okay for you to say I'm really tired, it doesn't work for me. And again, I think the other thing is I would encourage people to come up with some responses or some boundary phrases that feel good to them, because what I'm saying may or may not actually resonate with anyone in particular who's listening, and that's fine as well. Actually resonate with anyone in particular who's listening, and that's fine as well. It's going to feel better if it's authentic to you as well, versus it just being.
Sharon Martin: 31:59
Sharon said say this, no, you figure out what feels good for you. And again you're going to tweak that depending on the particular situation, because the phrase I use with my best friend is not necessarily what I would say with my mother or somebody else. Yeah, allow this to inspire you.
April Snow: 32:14
And you mentioned being, or. We often assume boundaries are harsh, are critical, but they're kind, right, they're kind to you, but they're also kind to the other person. Not only are you protecting the relationship, you're also helping them show up for you, helping them know what's going on inside of your mind so they don't have to be a mind reader.
Sharon Martin: 32:34
Exactly. I really think that boundaries help me stay out of that resentful place in a relationship, because then that was a really bad pattern that I was in early in my life is not speaking up and not setting boundaries, and I would just hold everything in. But then, if I'm honest, I was super resentful. Yeah Right, I was frustrated because my needs were not met in the relationship and then I was upset, like you were saying, because I felt like they should be met, like you should know, and you should be doing these things even though I'm not communicating them. So then I would be resentful and what ends up happening is, if you get resentful enough, it starts coming out in a non-productive way.
April Snow: 33:20
Yeah, what does that look like?
Sharon Martin: 33:22
Yeah, and then that starts causing problems in the relationships right, and there's anger, there's arguing, there's more conflict in the relationship and there's these hurt feelings. There's more conflict in the relationship and there's these hurt feelings. And again, it's not fair to do that, because if I haven't been asking for things, but I was expecting that somebody was going to know and do these things, then I need, ultimately, I have to take ownership for causing that problem and dealing with my resentment. And really the solution to that is to learn how to set the boundaries that you need, because, even though it's uncomfortable in the beginning and it's hard to do, it really does lead to relationships that function better and that are more fulfilling for both people. And I really appreciate how you have pointed out, april, that it's not just that the boundary benefits me.
Sharon Martin: 34:15
That's the obvious piece is that of course, it's good for me because now I'm getting my needs met, but it's also good for the other person in the relationship Because, again, the majority of people that we're in relationships with are people who care about us and they want us to be happy and to be healthy and to be getting our needs met, and that's another piece of it that's important to remember is that setting the boundary helps them to understand our needs so that they can make sure that's happening in the relationships as well. Yeah, boundaries are a life preserver for our relationships.
April Snow: 34:48
Yes, and it's true. There's that direct connection with resentment, so the more we yeah, boundaries are a life preserver for our relationships. Yes, and it's true. There's that direct connection with resentment. So the more we control for ourselves, the more we show up for our relationships. Yeah, so let's say we've worked on acceptance, we've now started to set some boundaries. What if we get pushback? Can we talk about a boundary violation? Sure, yeah, yeah.
Sharon Martin: 35:13
Yeah, it is inevitable. Not everybody is going to be super excited about your boundary. We've talked about that often. It is a really good thing and people are often more receptive than we think they're going to be. But of course not every boundary that you set is going to be met with a positive response. So yeah, that boundary violation is when somebody either disregards the boundary in some way or you get that pushback and they might flat out say, no, I'm not doing that, or why are you asking me that?
Sharon Martin: 35:47
Any number of kinds of responses that you can get.
Sharon Martin: 35:50
So what do we do when we get that boundary violation? So one thing is you can think about is there something else that I need to communicate in this relationship? So do I need to restate the boundary or state it in a different way? Let me see if I can give you a couple of just really basic examples of this. For example, if you close your office door and put a do not disturb sign on it and then your coworker just barges in, that's a boundary violation. Or if you ask your roommate to stop using your shampoo, but she keeps using it, that's a boundary violation. And so then you're like, okay, what am I going to do? How do I handle this situation? So part of it might be thinking about do I need to communicate this in a different way? Do I need to restate this request? And you might do that through. Maybe sometimes even writing a script and doing some rehearsing can help you feel more confident. Really, we're talking about using some communication skills for a difficult conversation, right, and so you can think about I'm sure everybody's had difficult conversations in their lives and what are some of the things that help us be prepared and feel confident going into that situation right, again, being really clear about what it is you need or what you're asking the other person to do. The other part of it is sometimes we can think about is there a change that I can make to try to get this need met? So the example with the roommate and the shampoo is a really easy one because you can say, okay, I could just move my shampoo bottle out of the shower so that she doesn't have access to it. Problem solved, most likely Right, and so if that's a solution, that's an option for you, you can just do that, and now you have solved this boundary.
Sharon Martin: 37:49
Obviously, sometimes it's not quite that easy. We could think about the situation with the office door. Now there's really nothing that you can do to prevent somebody from opening your office door. I'm assuming it's probably not locked and they could just open the door, no matter what you do. That doesn't mean there's nothing you can do, though. Again, you could take some steps to communicate your expectations and your needs here more clearly, having a specific conversation with the person who keeps violating this boundary. Maybe you're going to make a bigger sign and put it on the door. Or, again, you could think about what else could I do to help myself have this quiet work time that I need. Maybe I could work from home or maybe I can get some headphones Like sometimes there's creative solutions that can help you get the need met that are a little bit different than asking somebody to do something if they're really showing you that they're not interested in doing it right, there's nothing wrong with asking.
Sharon Martin: 38:47
So I don't want anybody to think, oh, I shouldn't be asking for something. But just realize that if you're asking and if you've asked multiple times in different ways and they're still not doing it, then you may need to figure out. Okay, what else can I do in this situation? That doesn't rely on that person changing their behavior. Because that's something I have no control over. There's often something I can do to at least partially get my need met.
April Snow: 39:13
Yeah, I hear you giving lots of options, which gives me hope, because sometimes in those situations you might feel hopeless, I can't do anything. But you can start by re-communicating the boundary, maybe sharing the impact or connecting the dots for someone when you walk into my office, because I actually have had this happen before when I was in an office where the delivery person would walk in and just put packages in and I had to let them know this is a confidential meeting and then they understood oh okay, this isn't like the I don't know the other types of offices down the hallway.
April Snow: 39:49
And that helped. But then what if the person still either doesn't care, doesn't respect that request, what can I do for myself? What do I have control over? And yeah, you could work somewhere else, you could put in a lock.
Sharon Martin: 40:04
Right, exactly.
Sharon Martin: 40:06
There's options, many different options, and I think, that's very empowering really to realize that there are things you can do that don't require anybody else to make a change. Yeah, it's been interesting in looking at that piece of setting boundaries, because I think often we feel like we should be getting the other person to change. Almost there's something that kind of gets in the way of this notion of why don't you just make a change yourself. Sometimes I think people feel like, oh, that's giving up or giving in some ways, rather than it's the obvious solution to the problem is put your shampoo out of the bath. And yet sometimes people are like but I should really get her, I shouldn't have to do that.
Sharon Martin: 40:52
I think it's what it is. People think I shouldn't have to do that. But at the same time, you can't force people to do things right. You just can't. And I think if we move away from thinking of boundaries as ways of getting people to do what we want or what we need, then we can start seeing boundaries in a different light and then they're almost easier for us to set because there's more control and there's more options.
April Snow: 41:19
Yeah, it doesn't always have to be a battle and we only have so much energy as highly sensitive people. Let's be selective about what's the most important boundary to set. Every day, there's dozens of boundaries you could set. What's the most important boundary to set? Because every day, there's dozens of boundaries you could set what's the most important. Yeah, we don't need to make it into a fight when it doesn't need to be, yeah, I appreciate that permission that you don't always have to take the direct approach. Sometimes it's an indirect solution.
Sharon Martin: 41:47
That's okay.
April Snow: 41:49
Yeah, I love that permission, sharon. As we're wrapping up, I wonder if there's a message that you could share with sensitive folks out there who may be struggling with boundaries, who maybe are starting to think about boundaries for the first time. What could you leave them with?
Sharon Martin: 42:05
I think this goes along with what we were just talking about is trying to shift away from feeling like boundaries are either these demands or these rigid rules that we're putting in place. And trying to think about boundaries, at least in relationships with close people in your life, is they're often involve some negotiation or some compromise, and again this is, I think, a piece of boundary setting that people aren't always aware of is, again, they think it's like I'm setting the boundary and it's this hard line in the sand, and again, it's not always very effective, but I think it also doesn't typically feel good, especially for HSPs, and so, if we can imagine the boundary again, this may not be appropriate in every single situation, but in many situations it really can be something that we are negotiating and we are deciding together how best to get our needs met.
April Snow: 43:10
Yeah, I appreciate that it can be more of a compromise.
Sharon Martin: 43:14
Yeah, it really can. I was thinking of what's a good example of something like this? And if you think, if you and your partner have small children and it's really taxing raising little kids in particular and, of course, it's very common for you to feel like, okay, I'm really overwhelmed, I'm really tired, I need more downtime, I need more personal time, and so instead of just telling your partner, look, I need you to come home an hour earlier so that I can get a break, that's what a lot of people will do.
Sharon Martin: 43:43
That's my boundary. I'm going to set it. I'm going to tell you that this is what I need, but the truth of the matter is that is not the only way to get that need met right. I identified what the need is, but now, together, we could actually figure out what is the best way for me to get this need met, and that's probably going to come up with a much better solution that's going to work for everybody. So, again, remembering that boundaries can often be met in multiple different ways, and if we think of this as like a joint problem to be solved, then we're going to get a much better result than it just being me getting stuck on one idea and saying this is the only way for me to do it and it has to be like this.
April Snow: 44:27
Yeah, we're bringing other people into the fold and not having to bear the weight of all the work around the boundary. Just like when you're saying I don't have a need, I'll just do this myself, let's let someone else in.
Sharon Martin: 44:41
It's remembering that we all have needs and sometimes our needs are gonna conflict with each other. And if I'm saying you need to come home early, there's a good chance that's gonna conflict with one of my husband's needs, that maybe he has a need to get his work done or something else, or some other completely valid reason why that doesn't work for him, or he needs to leave later so he can avoid the traffic, or whatever.
Sharon Martin: 45:03
it is right Like he has a reason, a need that's informing his decision. So again, if we can figure it out together, then my need can potentially met and his need could be met. Or again there's compromise, like part of my need is met and part of his need is met, cause that's again, reality in relationships is you don't always get all of your needs met all of the time, but you can probably get most of them met most of the time Exactly, and then being able to come together and create that bridge of here's my need, here's your need.
Sharon Martin: 45:33
How can we meet them both At least somewhat Exactly, and then it's going to and then again, like now, we've got the other person's cooperation because they've had a part in figuring out what it is we're going to do for the solution. So it's again it has a totally different feel than me just saying this is what I need and I need you to do it this way.
April Snow: 45:55
Yeah, and just softening, and then the other person is going to be more receptive to helping meet that need versus this is do this for me.
Sharon Martin: 46:03
Yeah, and again, like we could go back to the example of the colleague who's barging into your office. Again, if the colleague is receptive, you could take the same approach, which is I need uninterrupted time to get this assignment done. How could we figure out a way for me to get that done? And you would have your need of needing to ask me questions or needing to chit chat or whatever. Their need is that they're. The reason is that they're coming in.
April Snow: 46:29
Exactly, yeah, and having some communication and HSPs. Are you talked about coming up with creative solutions? We're very creative people. We tend to have a lot of ideas and just realizing, oh, there's lots of different ways to get our needs met. Yeah, yeah, and bringing other people on board is going to make that more possible.
Sharon Martin: 46:48
Yeah, and it just has a really a much better feel to it, right it does. I feel like we're being cooperative and working together on something and again, I think, ultimately more effective.
April Snow: 47:00
Absolutely, sharon. I want to just thank you so much for everything you shared today and just opening up possibility around boundaries. They just feel a lot more accessible after hearing you talk. So I will be sure to share your website, your social media links your books in the show notes. But before we go I'm wondering if you could tell listeners a little bit more about your new boundaries journal that you have.
Sharon Martin: 47:23
Yeah yeah, it's called the better boundaries guided journal and, as the title suggests, it is a guided journal format, so it is really a place for self-reflection and practice. I would say it's a combination of getting some instruction on how to set boundaries effectively, but also a place for you to really think about where your struggles are and what's getting in your way, and also to acknowledge your progress and the successes that you have with boundary setting as well. And I have to say I think it's a really nicely designed little journal.
Sharon Martin: 48:05
I had nothing to do with the design, so I say that, not taking credit for it, but I genuinely think it's a very attractive little journal and there's a surprising amount of content in there too, so there's a lot of activities for people to do that will help them really stay focused on learning how to set boundaries.
April Snow: 48:23
Beautiful. Yeah, it's a nice tool to have just a little holding around your boundaries process. Yeah.
Sharon Martin: 48:29
Yeah, I was going to say I think it's something that you can really pick up and just you could spend five or 10 minutes on it at any point. It's not something that you're going to feel like, oh, I'm really deep into this. I think it's great for people who have done a little bit of boundary setting work already and they want to keep that progress going and keep that momentum and really do some troubleshooting.
April Snow: 48:52
I love it. So folks have not yet picked up your Better Boundaries workbook. They could start with the journal.
Sharon Martin: 48:58
They could yeah, absolutely, you could do it. Either way, I would say the workbook is definitely a more comprehensive book, so there's more instruction and there's more content areas in there, but there's overlap and if you pick up the journal, yeah, you're not going to not be able to understand it.
April Snow: 49:21
So it's just a quick read.
Sharon Martin: 49:22
Great, and I'll be sure to have both of those in the show notes for folks so they can pick it up. Fantastic Thanks. Thank you, sharon.
April Snow: 49:32
Thank you so much for joining me and Sharon for today's conversation. What I hope you remember is that boundaries don't have to be harsh or confrontational. They can actually be kind and simple. When you communicate your needs and your limits, you actually strengthen your connections with all the relationships in your life, you allow folks to get to know you more and you give them a chance to show up for you. And when people push back or they don't hear your boundaries the first time, it's okay to reshare your boundary or find another way to get your needs met.
April Snow: 50:06
Pick up Sharon's new book, the Better Boundaries Guided Journal. This journal creates a safe space to explore your needs and feelings. As you work through the reflections and the writing exercises, you'll gain clarity about what boundaries you need, be able to practice assertive communication and build boundaries that will not only protect you but empower you to thrive. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSB resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
