12: Finding Your Way Through Grief
With Dr. Elizabeth Butler
Have you felt overwhelmed by grief or been pressured to get over it quickly? In this episode, I talk with Dr. Elizabeth Butler about finding your way through grief as a sensitive person and:
• The unexpected ways grief can show up such as irritability, anxiety, and anger
• How community support and rituals can support you in your processing of grief
• Grief shows up when you lose someone, but also when you go through other types of loss or life changes
• Remembering to come back to yourself as you take care of others in shared grief experiences
• Listening to your emotions and carving out time to be with your sadness via nature, movement, crying, or other practices
Dr. Butler (they/them) is a psychologist and therapist who loves deep conversation, hiking, and crocheting tiny animals. They hold intense professional interests in breaking generational trauma, healing from eating disorders while learning to nourish oneself along the way, and fighting the stigma so many of us face in a society that often doesn't understand anyone who diverges from "the norm." After experiencing many sudden losses beginning at a young age, Dr. Butler is passionate about meeting the need for holding space for and validating grief - at work and far beyond. They are currently enrolled in IPI's intensive psychedelic-assisted therapy certification program, which fits perfectly with their practical yet spiritual approach to recovery.
Keep in touch with Elizabeth:
• Website: https://prismapsychology.com/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/prismapsychology
Resources Mentioned:
• Elizabeth offers psychedelic integration services virtually for California residents. Find more details at: https://prismapsychology.com
• Beth Buelow’s Podcast: https://bethbuelow.com/how-can-i-say-this-podcast/
• Dear Grief Guide Podcast by Shelby Forsythia: https://www.shelbyforsythia.com/dear-grief-guide-podcast
• The Mindfulness & Grief Podcast by Heather Stang: https://heatherstang.com/grief-podcast/
• Terrible, Thanks for Asking Podcast: https://ttfa.org/
• It’s Okay You’re Not Okay by Megan Devine: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781622039074
• Bearing the Unbearable by Joanne Cacciatore PhD: https://bookshop
Thanks for listening!
You can also follow "SensitiveStrengths" for behind-the-scenes content plus more educational and inspirational HSP resources:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
If you have a moment, please rate and review the podcast, it helps Sensitive Stories reach more HSPs!
This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Elizabeth Butler: 0:00
I don't know how many times I hear people say if they knew something was coming, I knew it was going to be hard, but I didn't know it was going to be this hard or maybe for this long.
April Snow: 0:17
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, April Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Elizabeth Butler about the complexities of grief in its many forms and how to honor the ebbs and flows of feeling deep sorrow as a sensitive person. Dr Butler is a psychologist and therapist who loves deep conversation, hiking and crocheting tiny animals. They hold intense professional interest in breaking generational trauma, healing from eating disorders while learning to nourish oneself along the way and fighting the stigma so many of us face in a society that often doesn't understand anyone who diverges from the norm. After experiencing many sudden losses, beginning at a young age, Dr Butler is passionate about meeting the need for holding space and validating grief, For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast.
April Snow: 1:35
Join me on Instagram, TikTok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in and and elizabeth, how has your relationship with your sensitivity changed over the years?
Elizabeth Butler: 2:23
So much Really, starting with not being aware of it as a concept at all and just noticing little things over time really over my whole life that were different. But the only explanation that I had, unfortunately, was that it was bad. And then I initially learned about introversion as a trait that exists in life and people in, I think, late teens, early college years, and went with that for a while as the explanation for everything, and then eventually came to understand what high sensitivity was. In grad school I heard about it on Beth Bilo's Introvert Entrepreneur podcast. She had someone come and talk about high sensitivity specifically and then later realized that I also have ADHD and eventually came to understand that I have autism as well. So I have so many different layers of sensitivity under that neurodivergent umbrella.
April Snow: 3:29
Yeah it sounds similar to my progression. I think a lot of us slowly find our way to sensitive oh, I'm introverted and okay, and that still doesn't explain the full story. And then let me look a little deeper and thankfully discovering dr leonn's work. And then looking at this bigger umbrella of neurodivergence and you're saying you relate to a lot of those pieces ADHD, autism, sensitivity and they all overlap for you.
Elizabeth Butler: 4:01
Oh, definitely yeah, and it feels important to say that, even though I initially interpreted each of these things as something wrong with me, that over world and the media, I've come to understand that not really good or bad, it just is. It's my set of gifts and challenges in the world, the same way that someone else who has a completely different set of them or none of these things, would have a similar series of gifts and challenges in the world. They would just be different.
April Snow: 4:43
It's true. I love that approach, that we can see it as more neutral, that it's just our version of those gifts and challenges. This just happens to be yours or mine. You said and I think a lot of HSPs have this experience where initially the sensitive parts feel bad. The sensitive experience is something we need to disavow, we need to push it down. How did you start to embrace if you have your sensitivity?
Elizabeth Butler: 5:12
I guess it's maybe hard to put into words. I know having a better understanding of these different temperament styles and traits has helped me to change my life so that it meshes with what I actually need. So all of those nights that I chose to stay in and crochet next to the cat with a mug of warm tea or something, rather than socializing whereas maybe I noticed my classmates were doing that, taking away the sense of some kind of pathology around wanting to do something different, became a self-fulfilling cycle where then I felt better, then I could do more of that, which helped my nervous system recover from the socializing or the coursework or whatever it was that I was doing, and it just seems to get better the more I honor what works.
April Snow: 6:12
Yeah, it's an unfolding slowly over time, making choices to honor yourself, your needs, and it sounds like it got easier over time. Yeah.
Elizabeth Butler: 6:24
Yeah, and also finding other people who had similar experiences and so I knew that they would be there and they would be understanding when I was ready to come out of needlework mode or whatever, or just sleep right or catching up with nervous system recovery.
April Snow: 6:40
Yeah, community is so important to say, oh, there's people like me and I'm accepted as I am. That's essential, so essential for sensitive people and everyone, no matter what communities you're in. I know that you work a lot with grief in your practice as a therapist. There's a lot of HSP's I had this myself where you have to discover that you're sensitive also means having a grief process, letting go of certain parts of yourself is that something that you see with your own clients or within yourself, as you've slowly embraced your sense?
Elizabeth Butler: 7:15
of. Yeah, it really is its own unique kind of grief that there are certain things that you're expected to be able to do alongside everything else and maybe your body is just saying no, no matter how hard you try to get a yes out of it right, and eventually, through maybe talking with others or just self acknowledgement, you realize or some people realize this isn't going to work. I'm not going to be able to have that other job that I dreamed of or go to all of this organization's events, or even spend as much time with my child that I thought I would be able to before I became a parent, or something just in daily life like that, yeah that's true.
April Snow: 8:05
There's so many ways that shows up and needing to readjust, rewrite the story of what life is going to be and the roles that you play. We often think of grief as the loss of someone, so we're speaking to a different way that grief shows up. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on when does grief show up in our lives? This is one way, but what are some of the other ways?
Elizabeth Butler: 8:30
Yeah, it's a really expansive set of emotions or inner process that does not discriminate. So it could be anything from the more kind of concrete mainstream understanding of death of a loved one or someone that means something to us, to the loss of an object, to, like we were saying, the things that we might not be able to do, to body grief, if there's something that our body just won't do or can't do anymore after an injury or illness, relationships, divorce, the loss of a sense of safety when trauma happens yes, so many different ways it shows up.
April Snow: 9:20
And you said body grief. I haven't heard that term. I know. I know what you mean. When we can't do the things that we used to do, whether it be mentally or physically, there can be a profound grief in that, or it's a loss of safety. When something happens to us or something about our situation changes, that can be very impactful for someone who's neurodivergent, who's more sensitive. In those moments when something changes, what does the grief look like? How do I know I am grieving?
Elizabeth Butler: 9:52
It seems, particularly for sensitive people. It might not look the way you'd expect and it certainly isn't going to look the way that our society, who is pretty grief-averse, actually believes it. Quote-unquote should. Some surprising ways it can manifest are irritabilities, and that could be from a jitteriness of feeling like we're over-caffeinated or something to outbursts at people that we wouldn't normally enact. It can also look like deep, debilitating sadness for a really sensitive person, especially if it was a really important thing or person that they were Exhaustion, physical symptoms that might send someone to the primary care physician's office or something that are actually the manifestation of a difficulty or just a lack of safe places or support to express the deep sorrow or pain that's such a natural response so many different ways that it shows up and you said a lot of times it's not how we expect.
April Snow: 11:02
I just think about the stigma already of your emotions being too big. And then here you are, going through this loss of someone important, of your own safety, of a part of yourself, of something else that's so important to you, and then further getting ostracized or criticized for not responding in the right way. These big emotions, they have to go somewhere, you're saying. When you try to push them down, they come out as anxiety or outburst.
Elizabeth Butler: 11:32
They need space, right the sorrow it needs to be expressed, and I've come to understand that we're really wired to do that in community, or at least with one other person.
April Snow: 11:44
Yeah, can you say anything about the importance of community during grief specifically?
Elizabeth Butler: 11:52
Yeah, one of the things that I have found a lot of relief and deep understanding around grief in my own personal process is looking to places that maybe aren't as industrialized or live in a more communal setting, and what I found out was that there's really often a community-wide encouragement of vocalization, thrashing things that we might define in this day and age and place as more primal or animalistic or something, but that says actually, grief still is like that in all of us. It's not going to look exactly the same for each person and how it comes out, but yeah, it's like in ceremony. In these groups there are built in semi-regular ways to process losses of all kinds and we don't really have that. We have a funeral maybe, and sometimes we're lucky enough to be in touch with a grief group or a specialist afterwards, but that's as far as it goes for most people not to mention elemental rituals or things that bring us back to the greater world around us and ourselves.
April Snow: 13:21
Yeah, we need containment or a roadmap. Yeah, we need containment or a roadmap. And having a funeral, it's maybe a few hours in a long process of grieving, and that only recognizes grief of a person, loss of a person, right, there's no acknowledgement of, often of other types of losses. So we're left alone and anchorless, not knowing what to do with our grief, having those ceremonies, those rituals so important. Is there a way to create that for ourselves If we're not tapped into a community with an established ceremony or set of rituals for grief?
Elizabeth Butler: 14:01
Yeah, I have found a lot of really beautiful resources actually to reconnect to those ancient wise ways and I say ancient, but there are still plenty of people in the world practicing them. It's not like they're not happening anymore and I actually put together a list of a few resources that I recommend. That's one of my special interests is resource sharing, so I'd be happy to get that to listeners. That's one of my special interests is resource sharing, so I'd be happy to get that to listeners.
April Snow: 14:27
That'd be wonderful, yeah, or put it into the show notes or whatever would be the best way to disperse that.
Elizabeth Butler: 14:34
Yeah, so that's one way. And then working with your own internal relationship, with your emotions and your body, which can be really hard. I can say that all day and to do it is a completely different story, and I even I personally wasn't able to get there without some psychedelic therapy. That was what it took and I'm a therapist. Right, the blocks to inhabiting our bodies are huge and pervasive and unspoken and so subconscious, and it's hard work to do that kind of reconnecting. Yet that's where the grief lives and that's where it will stay until we find ways to express it in whatever way works for us. For a lot of people it's crying, shaking, maybe thrashing, throwing what I like to call an adult tantrum, flailing, punching pillows, whatever needs to happen, screaming, and for other people it can just look like holding really still or being embraced by someone, safe and feeling pain inside, in whatever form it shows up.
April Snow: 15:53
It makes sense that grief looks like the symptom for depression, which I equate to nervous system shutdown, where we are going into that deep, free state, disconnecting from our emotion because it's too big, it's too much. Our body goes into that deep free state, disconnecting from our emotion because it's too big, it's too much. Our body goes into that protective space that you're saying. At some point it's important to come out of that fog and back into the feeling as we're ready. And then you said, use the word thrashing a couple of times.
Elizabeth Butler: 16:21
It sounds like moving that emotion of that grief through, and so in whatever way makes sense for you, that could be one form, or even dance, dance or drumming maybe, if that's the way it wants to come out or that's the comfortable outlet for the person it could be. There are probably a hundred other ways that I'm not even thinking of.
April Snow: 16:40
Yeah, however, your body wants to move it through, to express it is important.
Elizabeth Butler: 16:46
Yeah, and in bite-sized pieces, really Not having to totally be different someday, but to just do it where it bubbles up anyway, or the grief will wait for you to be ready, and so that's nice because that means you don't have to deal with it. If it comes up in the middle of a work meeting or something. You get to hold it for a little bit later when it's more spacious opportunity.
April Snow: 17:11
you don't have to let the grief control you, which I think a lot of times it feels that way, at least in those initial phases. The classic visual of grief is I can't get out of bed, but I can wait. If you're feeling that urge in a meeting, you can get home and then punch some pillows on your couch or scream or dance. That feels comforting to hear yeah, yeah, I also don't know that.
Elizabeth Butler: 17:35
If I mentioned crying, I think maybe I briefly did earlier, but that has been huge. For me is just learning to cry. It doesn't only help with grief, it helps with if I see a happy commercial and I'm moved to let that out too and at the same time, especially with sadness. If that's how it's manifesting. For a person, it's just a really big deal and I would say, a really consistently oppressed emotional expression, consistently oppressed emotional expression Suppress because it's not recognized.
April Snow: 18:16
it's not allowed.
Elizabeth Butler: 18:16
Why do you think that we suppress grief so much? I think people haven't been taught to cry themselves and something is stirred when they see it and they need to shut it down as quickly as possible. So they say, oh, they're in a better place, or you're going to be fine, or you're tough, you can get through this, or all of the things that are like. I think one of the resources I was going to share is Shelby Forsythia says there's an invisible second half to that sentence, which is so don't be sad or don't feel the way that you're feeling.
April Snow: 18:45
So don't be sad or don't feel the way that you're feeling. Right, there's an implied second half there that this feeling is not allowed.
Elizabeth Butler: 18:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's too much for me, which is already the kind of one of the big plights of the highly sensitive person.
April Snow: 19:00
I can't count how many times I've heard that in so many ways, this feeling you're having it's inconvenient. I don't understand it. It's too much for me. Shut it down, hide it away, deal with it on your own and in grief. As you're saying, we need connection, we need safety. There needs to be space for these emotions to come through, and so can you allow it, at least in your own space, to let it come through, let the tears come down or let the emotions out. The sensitive person, the neurodivergent person who has shut those feelings down for a really long time, how can we start to thaw? How can I let myself cry or let myself shake it out? I really need to feel the grief.
Elizabeth Butler: 19:45
Yeah, it's a really good question and it's very hard to do alone. I would say most people are going to need at least a trusted friend by their side. Not everyone can do it with somebody there, though, either. So there, it's a little bit of a conundrum at times, but if therapy is at all accessible, even if it's hard to find, get on that waiting list. Seek out grief support in your area, because the people who are specializing in grief are going to know, not to say and do the things that imply that second half of that idea, that sentence and som somatic therapy, I think for grief is particularly complementary, given how much of it is in the body. Yes, and it can be an intense place to start, but yeah, also, you could, just, you could try. If those things aren't accessible, because I don't want to assume they are to everyone you could try putting on a song that started to bring you to tears when you're driving earlier and you didn't have the chance, try again.
Elizabeth Butler: 20:51
Get into a room where you can shut the doors and not be interrupted and play that same song again, like it's probably still there yeah and if you notice that, yeah, there's something there and I just can't get it out, that's important information too right, that means you probably need some help, a safer space or a safer set of circumstances, maybe even lots of different ways to start, whether it's with yourself or maybe with others.
April Snow: 21:18
I love that. Can we support ourselves in reconnecting with the sadness? A, a song, even a movie or a show or something that helps us maybe safely connect back to our emotions? Just give us a little kickstart.
Elizabeth Butler: 21:35
Yeah, I think about writing too and the way that can conjure emotion, surprisingly at times even.
April Snow: 21:41
Mm-hmm, yeah, it absolutely can. Whenever I'm journaling, I just get taken away by it. That's another form of therapy for me. I'm wondering are there any other specific challenges that you see in your clients or you've had in yourself that get in the way of processing or releasing grief?
Elizabeth Butler: 21:59
Yeah, the main one is that it comes back to that story, that we can tell ourselves that there's something wrong with me, that I feel so consumed by this sadness, that I feel it so often, that it's so big. Right, it's really a continuation of that internalization of that message that there's something bad about this. That's the biggest obstacle. And then wanting to make other people comfortable, which is a particularly important value for a lot of sensitive people. It's hard when your grief isn't comfortable for other people. It can really quickly shut it down without maybe even realizing that's what's happening, happening. And if there's sudden loss, I would say that the shock can actually be really difficult to tolerate. It can be hard to function for a while because there's so much that the nervous system is adjusting to and taking in.
April Snow: 22:58
And then, not to mention the additional tasks that might be necessary to if it's a job, looking for a new job while processing shock, or if it's the death of someone, you know all of the details that have to be taken care of at some point relatively quickly after a death yeah, it's hard to navigate all the different pieces because, as we are slower, deeper processors, something that happens subtly is going to throw us off kilter and it's going to take us quite a while to reconnect back to the ground and feel okay again and giving ourselves permission to have a different process than others are having.
April Snow: 23:38
If it's something you're sharing with others, not comparing yourself to them, like you said, we often, or we're feeling so often so big, not everyone else might be feeling that way. And not to compare, like you said, we often or we're feeling so often so big, not everyone else might be feeling that way. And not to compare, and you mentioned something, another important piece, which is we are usually then oriented to what others need. How can I make others feel comfortable? How does that impact the grief process when you have your gaze focused on what other people are needing?
Elizabeth Butler: 24:06
I don't know that it's inherently a problem. It's just, if there's never a break from that, yeah, if it's always the focus on what other people are needing, there might be situations, realistically, where we need to put our own feelings aside, put them on hold and try again later with the song or whatever, and then if we never get the opportunity later, if that never comes, it just it's going to stay inside of us.
Elizabeth Butler: 24:36
And back to what you were saying at the beginning of our conversation about what happens when it has nowhere to go yeah, yeah, just finding moments to come back to yourself, because you know, our nature is scheduling yeah, I for a while I had a Sunday morning grief walk where I just played this playlist that basically every song on it evoked big feelings and I went out in nature where that could be supported by the, the trees or the birds or whatever, and to know that it was also okay at the same time, that I was okay and the world was okay and that there was enough privacy to cry or make a sound or whatever needed to happen.
April Snow: 25:23
Nature can be such an amazing support. Nature can be such an amazing support Creates a bit of safety, groundedness, solace, where you can emote and vocalize and be held even as you're with yourself.
Elizabeth Butler: 25:38
You mentioned you have this grief playlist and there's something important having that consistent time without being able to show up at the same time every week yeah, I think that was really helpful for me, and I'm not sure if that's the structure that works best for me or if that would be helpful for most people. I want to be careful not to prescribe. You should be doing it this often just because it is such a wild beast of an internal process, but it could look very different for and some people don't have that opportunity. But, yeah, once we recognize that there's something that wants to come out, making the time as soon as we can is important, and being really forgiving and gentle with ourselves about how long that might take is equally important. That is important about how long that might take is equally important.
April Snow: 26:27
That is important. So, allowing the space to come up as it's needed whether that's a scheduled date with yourself that you can rely on or allowing it to be more organic, depending on your needs and your life and what's happening in the rest of your life and then knowing that this process might take a long time and that's okay, especially as sensitive people, when we need more time to process, we are feeling all of our emotions more intensely and just the adjustment period We've hinted at that and that we just need more time to adjust to that shock or that loss and make sense of it.
Elizabeth Butler: 27:07
And what does life look like now. It can be hard to be patient.
April Snow: 27:13
It is hard to be patient, especially if the pressure is coming in from all around to get back to normal, get back to what life was like before back to you know what life was like before.
Elizabeth Butler: 27:33
And really, is it ever back to normal? Yeah, likely not.
April Snow: 27:34
It feels so big because something big changed, right, yeah, and letting it be okay to honor that, and you're gonna need a lot of time to figure out what. Now that's okay, yeah, yeah, I wonder if there's anything else that's helped you personally navigate grief or that you've brought in with your client work yeah.
Elizabeth Butler: 27:56
So there's this book called it's okay that you're not okay, and in it the author, megan divine, talks about the early signs of worseness rather than the signs of wellness, recognizing what are the early signs of worseness rather than the signs of wellness. Recognizing what are the early indications that maybe I'm starting to struggle or not be doing so well, and I found that to be such a helpful concept in such a way to preventatively, as much as you possibly can with something like this, anticipate. Okay, maybe I need to build in a little bit more of that time for processing or an extra therapy session or play it for me, because I'm doing this psychedelic healing like plan, a journey sometime in the foreseeable future, and it could be little things, little signs. For me it's watching a little bit more tv than usual. I'm like I'm not really into this show right now and normally I don't care that much or I'm not. I haven't cooked for myself for a couple of weeks and it would be, of course, one of those things that's different for everyone. But just what?
April Snow: 29:03
what starts to fall off or look different for me before it gets really bad, before the more obvious signs of worseness, or just the whole picture is feeling worse all of a sudden all right, just those little signs that it's time to intervene, get a little bit more support, or carve out a little bit of time for going for walks, listening to the sad music, reconnecting with the grief. However that looks for you making sure. Okay, let me redirect myself, If you notice. Oh, I'm in the worstness, whatever that looks like whether it's I've stopped cooking.
April Snow: 29:40
I'm binge watching more television, not taking care of myself in the same ways. Does that mean it's time to tend to the grief?
Elizabeth Butler: 29:47
yes, yeah, yeah, the early signs are the easier place to intervene. There's not as much to have to unravel if we can stay in tune with the little ones. Yeah, but there's not all hope lost if it's really bad all of a sudden and we didn't notice, or maybe just happened really fast.
April Snow: 30:11
It's okay if you do get into that worst place. I just need a little bit more support than you would have if you caught it earlier. It's not hopeless.
Elizabeth Butler: 30:21
Yeah, yeah, it's going to happen. It's not something we can perfect, or it's more of an art form than it is a calculation yes, yes, I love that.
April Snow: 30:31
Lots of permission to be imperfect with the process. Yeah, because grief is messy, right, it's not linear. In and out, up and down takes longer than you expect.
Elizabeth Butler: 30:42
It's it feels heavier than you expect, so just lots of room for it to be what it is, as you need it to unfold, yeah yeah, I don't know how many times I hear people say I if they knew something was coming, I knew it was going to be hard, but I didn't know it was going to be this hard or maybe for this long yeah, it surprises, you yeah, and it's maybe impossible to anticipate in a way like I don't know that we can predict, or even maybe it's good that we can't imagine how bad something is going to feel because we can keep functioning or existing somewhat peacefully.
April Snow: 31:20
There's maybe a protect, protection in there and not anticipating so we can continue to move forward. And I think, as sensitive people, we often are trying to pre-process or trying to know what we're going to expect, and it's just, it's okay that if you can't anticipate everything, there will be some of that shock, that adjustment period, the needing to maybe fall apart a little bit.
Elizabeth Butler: 31:47
that's okay, yeah yeah, maybe even getting sick for a while, or if it wasn't illness, that was the thing in the first place. Or maybe getting a different type of illness, or yeah, it doesn't. It's not anybody's fault if those things happen. It's just really natural, and I am sure that sensitive people are more susceptible to those impacts.
April Snow: 32:09
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you mentioned earlier somatic therapy as a potential support. Oftentimes we do express things through the body. Is that one of the reasons somatic therapy would be helpful? It's because it's going to show up through the body, to fit through the physical manifestations, maybe even through illness.
Elizabeth Butler: 32:32
Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely addressing the grief which is more in the body, the nervous system, the emotion, and it also seems to help access the parts of us that our mind might be overriding, or a little bit more. In alignment with that, I should be feeling better idea. There's just a different level of processing that's happening.
April Snow: 33:00
Yeah, you can cut through a lot of those shoulds or those mental barriers. Yeah get back into the feeling and the sensation of it.
Elizabeth Butler: 33:11
Yeah, yeah and often when we're in the body, we can be really surprised to find that the thing, the reason we thought we were upset or the thing that we thought this was reminding us of, wasn't really that. It's something maybe much older or much more indescribable, right in words there's.
April Snow: 33:35
There's so much that's often linked to the from the past and the emotions we're feeling in the present. Going through that process more of a bottom-up process through the body, we might discover oh actually this is also here for me, this other experience or loss or change Sensitive folks. Often they just feel there's a big impact even from smaller changes in life or smaller losses. And I always tell my clients I know this doesn't feel like it, but this is an opportunity to access those feelings of grief that you didn't get to experience then, that the body might be holding on to. Would that be true in your experience as well? It's a window to the past.
Elizabeth Butler: 34:20
Yeah, that's consistent with what I've seen and felt yes.
April Snow: 34:25
Yeah, yeah, as we're speaking about this, it's just a reminder of just how complex it is. If there was one message, if there's one takeaway that you would hope the listeners leave with who are struggling with grief in any form, what would that be?
Elizabeth Butler: 34:43
The thing that I always come back to is the understanding of grief as the opposite side of the coin, of how much we love or appreciate or connect to the world, to other people, to joy, to whatever is on the other side of that difficulty and sorrow.
April Snow: 35:19
So the grief is part of feeling joy, feeling connection, and it's a testament to how much we care, invested, absolutely. Yeah, thank you for that, elizabeth. I really want to appreciate all, appreciate you for all that you shared today. I will include your website and all the beautiful resources that you shared today in the show notes so folks can connect with you, reach out to you and then dive into all those beautiful resources. Thank you.
Elizabeth Butler: 35:51
You're so welcome.
April Snow: 36:00
Thanks so much for joining me and Elizabeth for today's conversation. What I hope you remember is that grief doesn't take a linear path and that it's often a slower process for sensitive folks. Give yourself time to adjust to the shock of losing someone or something that's important to you and slowly feel the grief, however it shows up. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSB resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
