06: Connecting Deeply and Feeling Seen in Relationships
With Lauren Selfridge, LMFT
When you’re overwhelmed, are you able to tell others what you need? In this episode, I talk with Lauren Selfridge, LMFT about creating emotionally safe, deep connections and navigating conflict and:
• Translating and communicating our sensitive needs to others
• Creating emotionally safe, deep connections with HSPs and non-HSPs alike
• The value of taking breaks during conflicts to soothe your nervous system and create stronger connections in the process
• Reclaiming sensitivity as resiliency, not a sign of fragility
Lauren is an extroverted HSP and a licensed psychotherapist living with multiple sclerosis. Through her video therapy practice, she supports clients with chronic illness as well as individuals and couples wanting to build extraordinary relationships - using Imago Dialogue Developed by Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt. Lauren also hosts This Is Not What I Ordered: a podcast on finding our way with chronic illness, loss, and change. She loves helping people create meaningful, deep, and joyful connections with themselves and the people they care about.
Keep in touch with Lauren:
• Website: https://laurenselfridge.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/helloselfridge
Resources Mentioned:
• Lauren's Free Guide: 3 Practices for Full Hearted Living with Chronic Illness
• Lauren's This Is Not What I Ordered Podcast
• Imago Relationship Therapy
Thanks for listening!
You can also follow "SensitiveStrengths" for behind-the-scenes content plus more educational and inspirational HSP resources:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Lauren: 0:00
Once we can really be safe to be different from each other, we can be safe to connect on a much deeper level ["Sensitive Stories"].
April: 0:13
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP, without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Lauren Selfridge about translating and communicating your sensitive needs to others, the value of taking breaks during conflicts to not only soothe your nervous system but to create stronger connections in the process, and reclaiming sensitivity as resiliency, not as a sign of fragility or weakness. Lauren is an extroverted HSP and a licensed psychotherapist living with multiple sclerosis. Through her video therapy practice, she supports clients with chronic illness, as well as individuals and couples wanting to build extraordinary relationships, using a imago dialogue that was developed by Dr Harville Hendricks and Dr Helen LeKelly-Hunt.
April: 1:24
Lauren also hosts this Is Not what I Ordered a podcast on finding our way with chronic illness, loss and change. She loves helping people create meaningful, deep and joyful connections, not only with themselves, but the people they care about most. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at sensitivestrengths, or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. Lauren, can you start off by telling me your HSP discovery story? When and how did you realize that you're highly sensitive?
Lauren: 2:33
I for a long while thought I definitely wasn't a highly sensitive person, because I conflated sensitivity with fragility. I'm not proud of that. I'm not proud of the fact that I would ever think that, but specifically when I heard the term, I think probably for the first few years, I just thought to myself that doesn't sound like me, because I'm a pretty resilient person.
April: 2:59
Yes.
Lauren: 2:59
And then I met you. So really you're a big reason that I discovered that I'm an HSP, because you spoke about it enough when we were going to school together and we worked at the same counseling center and I kept learning from you. And then I started getting jealous of all these cool HSPs because I thought there's a lot of us, yeah, and it's such a wonderful identity and I just came to love and appreciate it. And I think one day I was talking to you about it, about myself as a non-HSP, and your ears perked up and you said are you sure that you're not an HSP? And I was really curious and it almost felt for somebody who has been studying it as long as you have. I really trust your intuition. And so you sat down with me at one point and we were just hanging out and you read me the questions from the self-test.
Lauren: 3:53
And I thought, for sure I wasn't going to be cool enough to get into the club. But I was excited to do it and I think I answered most of the questions in the affirmative and I've retaken that test multiple times, including probably a couple months ago, just to make sure I'm still part of the club Just kidding, and it's just so clear that this is a part of my identity.
April: 4:19
Yeah, you speak to what a lot of HSPs have gone through, which is that if we don't fit this exact mold of what an HSP is, what we think an HSP is very introverted, more emotionally fragile or weak, because those are the messages we've heard our whole lives, you're like, but I have some resiliency, I'm more extroverted, I don't fit this mold, so I must not be in the club, so to speak, and I love telling these stories because it shows us that there are so many different experiences as an HSP, there's so many different intersections with how our sensitivity presents and how we experience it, and that there's a lot of different. I think there's a lot of room to reframe what sensitivity looks like, what it is, how it's experienced. I'm curious about this label that's sensitive as fragile, because it's one we hear a lot. I'm curious if you're open to sharing more about where that message came from.
Lauren: 5:13
Yeah, I think I heard it a lot growing up.
Lauren: 5:16
I grew up I was born in the mid-80s and I think in the 80s and 90s and just looking especially at the way that women are perceived and still perceived in society and the idea that someone was sensitive, I remember growing up like whether it was my family or my social groups there would be jokes about what it means to be sensitive or the fact that, oh, this person's sensitive or they're overly sensitive, or people would joke about themselves being sensitive oh, I'm just being a fragile flower. And so I think I took those messages and thought I don't want to be that and that's not how I identify. So I just won't ever give myself that and I think that carried through to adulthood and genuinely I needed the intervention of understanding the definition of high sensitivity or sensory processing sensitivity in order to really make sense of it.
Lauren: 6:13
But even with that description, I think it's also taken people like yourself, who have reclaimed the term sensitivity and helped many of us to reclaim the strength and sensitivity in ourselves and be proud of it. I really wasn't joking when I said I was jealous of you and all the other HSPs, because I could see the strength because of how you modeled it and how you talked about it. So it's been really good for my personal self-esteem and identity.
April: 6:46
It's so interesting to think that there you were, jealous of something you already had within yourself. Yeah, when you were looking at us, these self-identified HSP sensitive people, where was the jealousy coming from? Curious, what were you wanting that you didn't think you already had?
Lauren: 7:03
I think it was something about being able to even identify what does and doesn't work and to claim it without apologizing for it.
April: 7:14
Yeah.
Lauren: 7:15
And I think a lot of my life I have distanced myself from certain sensory needs or sharing that I have those needs or even understanding in myself that I have those needs, and I think also going to school for psychology has really helped me understand the physical sensations that go along with feeling overwhelmed. But for a long time I would interpret those physical sensations to just mean that I was in a bad mood.
April: 7:43
What sensations are you talking about? If you could share an example.
Lauren: 7:46
So, for example, let's say, one of my key moments in the day when I feel overwhelmed is when I come home. So I come in the door. Usually I'm wearing a coat, I've got keys in my pocket, I've got receipts in my pocket, I've got shoes on. So I come in. My cat tries to leave. He's an indoor cat. I have to fight him, to protect him from the outdoors. I'm already feeling a little hot because I've got the coat on, but now I've entered my home environment.
Lauren: 8:13
I don't like stuff in my pockets when I put my coat away. So I start taking the stuff out of my pockets. But it's a footwear free home so I can only go so far into my home. I gotta get my shoes off, but I have my coat on. Which one do I take off first?
Lauren: 8:25
So it's this whole kind of mini universe of overwhelm for me and at this point in my life I can laugh about it and I can also warn my loved ones that's the worst time to ask me a big question about life.
April: 8:38
Cause so much is going on. This is such a great example of an HSP experience.
April: 8:43
On the surface, it looks like not much is happening. You're coming home, you're taking your coat off and your shoes off, but if we dial it in as an HSP, we're noticing every little sensation, every little detail the receipts, the keys, the weight of the coat, the heat of the coat, the transition into a new environment. The cat is trying to run out the door and then so your brain is trying to process all these details. And yet people may not understand what's happening for you internally. And how is it to communicate that, to translate that experience?
Lauren: 9:14
I think that there's still some internal kind of shame there and it's hard to translate, I think, for a lot of people, especially folks who either aren't HSPs or are HSPs, who haven't really studied or understood how to identify these things.
Lauren: 9:30
And so I do talk about the physical sensations of mostly it's heat, and also it gets some tightness in my chest or my arms where I feel like I wanna move faster than my body can move because I just wanna get these things done.
Lauren: 9:43
And so I think it helps if I can talk to the people who love me and say look, what happens when I come in the door is I have a bunch of different sensory things going on. I can't get it all done at once, so I wind up getting a little stressed. But it's not about you or anything that you've done and you can help me or at least understand. That's not a time when I'm gonna be as useful to you. I'm not going to be able to answer big questions about what we're gonna have for dinner tonight or what is the meaning of life, but usually it takes about a minute and then after that minute I'm pretty good to go and I'm so relieved and I might even just be in a really good mood, but for such a long time I thought it meant I had a bad attitude.
Lauren: 10:26
And that's a part where the shame comes in is. I have to really separate out what is just a need that I have for more spaciousness or more gentleness with myself, and what is an actual, just bad attitude.
April: 10:39
Because if we, if, let's say, you allow yourself five, 10, 15 minutes of transition, you communicate that need to whoever's in the home with you, in 15 minutes or however long it takes you to transition, you're gonna be back to feeling yourself. That irritability that which is mainly physical, sensory is going to start to fade. But yeah, we get locked into these moments because we don't understand what's happening. You don't realize that you're highly sensitive or you don't accept that, or you don't quite understand all the complexities of having the trait. So it's easy to get locked in. I think I'm an irritable person. I struggle with basic tasks like getting home, and then I don't know how to communicate that to others, and then it feeds into maybe a conflict or an idea about yourself and even deeper, perhaps shame or saying, oh, there's something wrong with me, yeah, and it's interesting because my brain has done two seemingly opposite things with scenarios like this.
Lauren: 11:38
One is to self criticize or say, man, I really needed to get. I need to get it together because everybody else is living their life and coming home and putting their keys away and they're okay, right. The other side of that is sometimes, if people come and address me during that whatever 60 second window, I go into a story in my head about how they're insensitive, because there's another part of me that thinks that everybody feels this way when they come home. So how could they not be tuned in enough to know that it's the worst time to ask me a question?
April: 12:08
Yes, exactly Because we only know our internal experience. It's so easy to see everyone's having it.
Lauren: 12:15
Yeah, and it's between multiple HSPs. I imagine there are some folks who would go through the very same ritual, coming home and not feel overwhelmed. We can't read each other's minds. It's just still unpacking whatever unconscious assumptions I'm making about what people are supposed to know about me and identifying what I need to communicate with them.
April: 12:35
Who it's so hard, and even let's say so, I'm married to an HSP and even with both of us we're very different, our sensitivity presents really differently. So it's helpful to remember we still need to communicate, which is so hard as an HSP because we tend to be caretakers of others or we get into that trap, like you talked about, of thinking they should know, they should see what I need. Don't they feel it too? Or at least I'm noticing it in them? Why aren't they noticing it in me? And then we can get into some pretty tough spaces.
Lauren: 13:06
Definitely so. Even just slowing it down and taking a look at a given day and saying when are those key moments that I can almost predict that I'm not going to want what I normally want or that I'll need something more or less than what I would normally need, has been so helpful to me and also, I think, helpful to my loved ones to understand that, even if they just see it as me being quirky it's predictable enough that they can expect a certain type of set of responses or needs from me.
April: 13:40
Exactly and then they start to realize, oh, this is what Laura needs when there's a transition happening or at these certain parts of the day, because it repeats probably every single time you come home with a coat on. You need that transition time. Yeah, can you talk a little bit about the importance, especially for HSPs who struggle with conflict, who really struggle to turn up the volume and share what their needs are? How can they do more of that in relationship, especially if you're with a non-HSP and I know you do a lot of couples work, so how would you maybe help a couple who there's an HSP in the relationship and they're struggling to say, hey, here's what I'm experiencing. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.
Lauren: 14:22
I definitely do and I have. It's interesting because I have some family members who are HSPs and I also have just close people in my life who are not HSPs or who might be sensitive but not HSPs. So all different varying levels of understanding or ability to identify, and I think for me I can share personally that one of the best ingredients to use when talking about difference is a lightness or sense of humor.
April: 14:57
And.
Lauren: 14:57
I don't mean making fun of myself in a mean way, but to me one of the funniest things is to look at myself through someone else's eyes, and the trick to that is I can only look at myself through someone else's eyes if I'm looking through their eyes. If we think about and this is an analogy that I use with the couples that I work with- and with the families that I work with.
Lauren: 15:20
Hady Schleifer is a practitioner who studied amago therapy, which is the form of therapy I use with couples, and she then went on to create a new form of therapy called Encounter-Centered Couples Therapy, and she has this beautiful analogy that I think is useful for all of us, where we think of two separate people as living in their own two worlds, and that each world is equally valid, fascinating, full of wonder, full of information.
Lauren: 15:55
And in that, what we often do is we imagine if there's a bridge that connects the two worlds, we imagine that we're coming out onto the bridge to represent our world and have conversations with each other. And so what Hady Schleifer and what Amago Therapy and Encounter-Centered Couples Therapy all recommend is that, when we want to have a meaningful communication with someone about especially about difference, is that, instead of coming out halfway onto the bridge and representing our two worlds which can be not very satisfying because it can wind up feeling like we're not really going deep or we're not really getting each other, or it can almost, or it can turn into an argument what we instead do is we identify. Okay, in this moment am I needing to feel understood and heard? And usually the answer is yes.
April: 16:47
And also.
Lauren: 16:48
Is the other person needing that?
April: 16:50
and identifying.
Lauren: 16:52
Am I feeling generous enough and curious enough To leave my world behind for just a few minutes and fully cross the bridge?
Lauren: 17:03
over into the other person's world with curiosity, with openness, without judgment and without even having to agree or disagree with them, so that I can really learn what it's like for them. And so what happens is it takes longer, but also a joke and I think a lot of us joke but it doesn't take longer than fighting for the rest of time, that's true, but it takes longer in the sense that we're slowing down how we're communicating.
Lauren: 17:32
So, if I, as an HSP, am communicating with, for example, my partner who's not an HSP, and if I can quietly identify that I want to cross the bridge into her world, I can do that without telling her. I don't have to say I have an announcement to make, I'm going to be generously listening, without judgment. But sometimes they don't have that generosity, and so it's up to me to identify that and either take a break, take like a 10 minute, 20 minute break.
Lauren: 17:58
come back when I'm feeling more generous, or I can say hey, are you feeling like you'd be willing to cross the bridge into my world for a little while? So I can tell you what it's like for me and that's very formal language to use and I think different people might practice it in a more or less formal way. But it takes this little mental shift to just say, in this moment am I learning or am I sharing? And if I'm sharing, is the other person really available to be in my world?
April: 18:29
Exactly. It's like we want to enter into each other's world to deeply, more deeply understand each other, making sure that the person's actually available. First, is the bridge open for passing before? What if the bridge isn't open? What do we do then?
Lauren: 18:47
So if we find ourselves in a situation and I think sometimes it's nice to be explicit I can quietly say I'm going to cross the bridge into my brother's world or my mom's world or my friend's world or my partner's world. If I if it's a more serious conversation feels like the tension is higher, it doesn't feel just like a casual breezy. Hey, do you mind putting the red tie on differently? Yeah, no problem If it feels deeper, no matter how.
Lauren: 19:13
Quote unquote small or large, the topic is if it feels more like it's sticking and it feels a little bit more tension filled. I might just be more explicit and say I think this is one of those conversations that I want to. I want it to go well and I like to speak for myself. I don't like to say to the other person you seem triggered or you seem agitated.
April: 19:35
Try not to speak for the other person.
Lauren: 19:37
Even though in my mind I might be thinking that, but, I, could speak for myself and saying I'm feeling a little bit uneasy right now, or I'm feeling like I just need to take a breather to make sure I can show up in the conversation in a way that feels intentional, and I want this to go well. So what I often recommend to couples and I practice myself is a 10 to 20 minute break.
Lauren: 20:00
And the break is not I'm leaving and I'm not going to tell you when I'm coming back. It's really just I'm going to step into the other room or go for a walk or whatever, and then I tell the other person when I'll be back.
April: 20:11
Yeah, exactly.
Lauren: 20:13
And the reason I do that is because it can be really activating, especially if someone has abandonment wounds or feels disrespected, when someone leaves the room to know that this isn't a punishment and it's not a cliffhanger, it's genuinely I'll be back and if I can't come back in the time I said, I'll send a text message and say I need five more minutes, or whatever.
April: 20:35
It's so important for HSPs to take that break. I think it's, first off, let's offer some permission. It's okay to take a break. It's really important, especially if you have a nervous system that's more easily dysregulated. It's not a good place to fight from if you're in a state of anxiety or anger or you're starting to feel into that space of overwhelm and you can't think clearly. Also, we need more time to process. So taking that break not only supports your nervous system, helps you come to a place where you're feeling a little bit more calm and focused, but then you can also think about what you want to say. You have that time to really process and check in with yourself. What's most important about this conversation for me? What do I need from it and what can I ask for?
Lauren: 21:21
even yeah, and I think that period of regulating the nervous system can look a number of ways. I know I tend to recommend doing something that isn't ruminating or analysis or coming up with a plan, only because during that time, if we're really feeling activated, we usually just need to do something soothing. For some people that might look like journaling or making a list. It's just. I caution people not to necessarily use that time as like a legal argument, like I'm making my remarks for the courtroom.
Lauren: 21:56
Really it's about play a game on your phone or put your feet in the grass or chat with a friend or watch a show that makes you laugh, or feel soothing to you, so that there's no pressure to have it all fixed and solved during a time when your nervous system is least likely to be able to come up with something Complete.
April: 22:14
It doesn't have to be perfect or fully complete to to reengage. What's your favorite way to spend that time you mentioned, you know, putting your feet in the grass or playing a game. What do you personally do when you're trying to navigate a conflict and taking a moment for yourself?
Lauren: 22:30
Sometimes I just sit and meditate and just feel the sensations of my body, with permission. And sometimes I look at cat videos. The best, yeah, just stuff that will make me laugh or feel like we can watch videos of cute animals and start to feel some of the oxytocin hormone kick in and that's the cuddle hormone, and we need stuff like that to help our nervous systems.
Lauren: 22:56
Or I'll literally cuddle my cat. But yeah, I think one of the things too and I don't know if this is the age or HSP information or what but as I've gotten older I've realized I don't need to respond immediately to most things in life. Yes, and that's really helped me especially knowing one conversation doesn't have to be the only or final conversation on a topic.
April: 23:20
Absolutely yeah, to disconnect from that sense of urgency is so important. And yeah, there can be multiple conversations, especially if you need time to digest in the middle, Because I know for me personally oftentimes I will leave the conversation and then hours or even days later I will start to understand the impact or what I actually needed, or deeper layers will start to unfold. So, yeah, it's okay to reengage with the conversation later and maybe that's a great practice to say let's take this in stages.
Lauren: 23:56
Yeah, and I heard one of my colleagues refer to Imago Dialogue, which is again the type of therapy and practice Could you share a little bit more about what Imago is for folks who are who've never heard that term before. Yes, Imago Dialogue is a process for slowing down a couple's communication, so in two phases. The first phase is partner A is sharing and partner B is receiving. So, we would imagine that partner B is crossing the bridge into partner A's world.
Lauren: 24:30
You can do this with a romantic partner, you can do it with a friend, you can do it with a colleague, you can do it with family, or you can use elements of it and not practice it in such a formal way and in the dialogue there are a few phases.
Lauren: 24:43
The first phase is partner A is sharing about their world in a pretty conscious and intentional way, meaning I'm sharing without blame, shame or criticism. And what's interesting is a lot of us have been taught that's what honesty is to be criticizing or blaming. So part of what I do as a therapist is help the person in that position, who's sending the information, find creative, authentic ways to communicate what's going on in their own world without putting responsibility on someone else. And it doesn't mean that we ignore the fact that someone's actions had an impact. It's just there's a way to share that without blaming and criticizing the partner who is receiving the information. And visiting partner A's world is mirroring them, and mirroring is a way of saying here's what I'm hearing you say, and it really becomes a little bit like a meditation, because partner A shares partner B mirrors and let me see if I'm getting that.
Lauren: 25:45
Is that what you said? Did I get you? And gosh talk about nervous system regulation.
Lauren: 25:50
Really just so nice to slow down in that way and take not just the opportunity to help partner A feel heard but to also allow partner B room to not have to agree or fix or solve or disagree with what partner A is saying, but also show up for them at the same time. And then the next couple phases are that partner B will validate and tell partner A why their worldview makes sense, based on who they are. And then we'll empathize with them and say I imagine you might be feeling and guessing a few emotions and then they switch. So that's an imago dialogue and what I was going to say earlier is a colleague of mine refers to an imago dialogue as the slower way to get where you want to go faster, which?
April: 26:42
I love it's true, it's so beautiful. It's such a great method for really seeing each other right, having that relationship be reciprocal but not always needing to, I don't know. I guess conform to what you're the other person is believing. You can say I see you and also have my own experience, and then we'll see each other. And it's just really slowing that down can help you unhook from the heat of the conflicts. Yeah, it's a structured way.
Lauren: 27:16
And I think the more I talk that I make solely because it's been my experience personally about the heat of those of that tension is that the more clever what I think I have to say is, the less I need to say it, the more clever I'm probably being rude or blaming or snide or criticizing. So the more that fiery kind of in myself, that feeling of I got to say this right now because I'm going to make the best point and I'm going to teach you.
Lauren: 27:50
It's learning to unhook from that and notice that, yeah, I could do it that way. It doesn't tend to get me what I want, doesn't tend to go the way I wish. But if you think about this two worlds and crossing the bridge and dialogue stuff I might actually be heard if I took that approach.
April: 28:10
Yeah that clever.
Lauren: 28:13
It takes practice, but it's worth it.
April: 28:16
It's worth it. It's so worth it to especially as an HSP, when you've struggled so long to be truly heard and seen, can be so healing and nourishing to have someone really meet you on that bridge. Curious about so, you know, sometimes there's that heat whether it be anger or frustration, whatever emotions coming up that makes us want to lash out a little bit, be clever, be a little bit hurtful to our partner, try to make a point, try to be right. Where does that energy go? When you gently crossing this bridge, it just feels like it's a different energy than maybe when you're fired up a bit or you're feeling that, yeah, that deep hurts. How does it? How does where does it go?
Lauren: 29:06
I love that question and what I want to say to identify what where it goes first when we engage it is that if I follow the impulse, let's say you and I are having a thing. We've never had a thing, right, but imagining that you just stomped on my foot on purpose, which you would never do and unless it was to put out a fire. But maybe I didn't know that you're putting out a fire.
Lauren: 29:30
I was ticked off because you stomped on my foot and I can't believe you and maybe there are reasons for the past that show up and I'm going to teach you a lesson or I'm going to show you, yeah. So if I were to engage in that energy at you or whoever I'm speaking with, two things will happen. One it is least likely that I'll be heard, understood, received or see any kind of positive transformation and to.
Lauren: 29:57
I don't know about you, but my intensity increases the less I feel heard. So, because I've done something that makes it unlikely I'll be heard and probably be met with similar energy, because humans respond to that energy with similar energy. Then what happens is it actually grows. So before I answer the question of where does it go when I don't engage it, I want to be clear that when I do engage, it doesn't get rid of it, it increases the despair and it also, for me, leads to a sense of collapse, and not in a cathartic way or in a way where I feel like I've actually done some damage and I feel less understood than before.
Lauren: 30:37
And that's when we talk about getting like emotional hangovers. Sometimes is like I've done something that maybe isn't in alignment with my best intentions or the best caring for the person that I'm with. So I will say, in the short term, it's not fun to not engage it, because because we usually have really good stuff to say in those moments Sure, but when I take a step back and I remind myself and usually the more I practice, the more I can remind myself that there's another way and that I will be heard, because I tend to hang out with people who actually care about me and want to hear me that I can do stuff with that energy, whether it's go for a run or do like a plank.
Lauren: 31:20
I've done that for any kind of physical activity that allows you to exert a little bit. Yeah, some people punch a pillow, that's totally cool. Yeah, whatever you want, but to do something to activate the body, because usually the body wants to fight a little bit.
Lauren: 31:36
Not meaning you want to fight the person, but the instinct in the body is to exert energy that sometimes that can be really good. I don't tend to have a lot of that. I think some people don't. I think it's a spectrum. For me it's more allowing my heart rate to be what it is and breathing and noticing how it shifts when I give myself that room to not have to solve everything at once. Certainly not with contempt.
April: 32:02
Yeah, exactly yeah. That energy, when we direct it to our words, usually doesn't give us what we really need. It usually creates more of what we don't need in once and blocks that opportunity for us to truly be seen and heard. We can redirect that energy, which is mainly physical anyway it's to fight a separate, self-protect. Go for a run, do some push-ups, clench your fists, even Scream or punch a pillow. Let that energy out, but then be thoughtful or intent about your words so you actually get what you need emotionally yeah.
Lauren: 32:42
Yeah, and one thing too is I'm talking about the specific practices and very structured dialogues, and they could seem like rules or they could seem like you have to follow this perfect template, otherwise you're a bad person. And what I also know is that most things have there's gray area, so we don't need to do it perfectly. Even if you take one kernel of what we're talking about today and you check it out to see how it goes, and maybe, instead of waiting one second before you say the mean thing, you wait five seconds before you say the mean thing, guess what? You're on your way.
April: 33:16
Exactly.
Lauren: 33:17
There's progress. It's not as simple as behaving perfectly and impeccably at all times. It's really about how to figure out the direction to be stretching in so that we can grow into new behaviors that serve us, that serve our partners and the people that we love.
April: 33:35
Exactly, I see stretching in lots of different directions stretching your anger and to the side in a different way, but then stretching your needs. Let them take up more space and let them stretch towards the person that you need Something from that. You want to be seen with and meeting each other more in the middle. I'm curious, as you've really dove into couples work. When I first met, you were already doing couples work as an intern, even a trainee perhaps. How has what you've learned, combined with your knowledge of being a really sensitive person, wondering how that shaped your own relationships? How has that shifted your connections?
Lauren: 34:15
with others. Oh my gosh. I think it's funny because I think that the whole inspiration for me behind becoming a couple's therapist was my conscious awareness was to help other couples. And that's true, and the unconscious goal was to figure out what the heck is going on in relationships and how the heck we're supposed to do them in a healthy way. Yeah, because I think most of us didn't have examples of how to do that.
Lauren: 34:46
Most people don't have a lot of role models who are in romantic partnership who are truly fulfilled, or and I don't mean perfect, but just feeling satisfied, feeling like it's a team, feeling like they can be their whole selves and that their relationships are part of what allows them to become more of themselves. That's what I want for people. So when I became a couple's therapist, I remember walking into my couple's therapy class and saying to the professor this is like Disney World for me. I have been waiting for this for years. We're finally doing it and then when?
Lauren: 35:26
I got my advanced clinical training in a mago. I was over the moon, I was so excited. So I would say the main ways that it's helped me in my relationships are that I really can understand when someone's speaking to me that it's a their world thing, that I can really take a moment even if I don't agree with what they're saying to say, oh my gosh, this is what makes them tick, this is what hurts for them, this is what excites them, this is what is so meaningful to this other person that I wouldn't have known if I didn't slow down enough to really hear it through.
Lauren: 36:03
that I was going to say lens, but we don't hear through, but to really hear through their vantage point. And it's also allowed me to be more thoughtful about how I communicate with the people that I love. I know we've probably all heard the phrase use I statements when you're in a challenging moment. But I think it's more than just a rule.
Lauren: 36:26
It's actually a different way of thinking, which says just because it feels this way or I see it this way for my world doesn't mean that the whole universe sees it that way, and so it takes the pressure off the people that I'm communicating with to have to agree with me. It also takes pressure off of me to have to get them to see things my way. I actually get more permission to be who I am when I can do those I statements where I'm saying in Lauren world, here's how I'm thinking about it, and let other people agree or disagree. That's totally fine, but it gives me room to affirm, like with all of us who are HSPs, to affirm that the way I'm seeing, thinking, feeling is okay. Yes, exactly.
April: 37:14
Let's say that again. How you're thinking, seeing, feeling is okay, and the biggest takeaway for me from what you're saying is that we get to have our own experience, even if others don't understand, don't agree. We also don't have to agree or understand what everyone else is experiencing, although we often try and even unintentionally, enter into their emotional worlds. It's just more about let's just share with each other, not let's can. That's our mold each other, and that is okay. I like how you're saying. It's just a different way of thinking.
Lauren: 37:49
And thank goodness for that too, because Harpal Hendrix, who's the co-founder of Amago with his wife Helen Lekelly Hunt, talks about how sameness doesn't even exist in nature.
Lauren: 37:59
If you look at a tree and we think all of the maple leaves on the tree look the same, but they don't just like all snow flakes are different, that we are meant to exist as different beings, yes, and that I think a lot of times we think compatibility equals sameness, and while we can have things that we're on similar wavelengths about, which can feel amazing and so fun and exciting, it isn't as fun and exciting as having some of those similarities and differences and recognizing that, if I really want to love my partner, my mother, my brother, my father, my friend, that I need to make room for them to have a whole other universe that they live in.
Lauren: 38:46
That doesn't have to, it doesn't have to be threatening to me that I can actually put on a different set of glasses, where I see them as being whole in and of themselves and that I'm grateful that we get to live on the earth at the same time and I can give myself permission to have my whole complex universe, and that's really what builds safety in relationships is it's not just being the same. I think that helps us bond at the beginning especially. But what really creates that long term safety is to know you're safe to be yourself.
April: 39:23
I'm safe to be myself.
Lauren: 39:24
It doesn't mean that we don't make adjustments because we have an impact on each other. But it's to say once, we can really be safe to be different from each other. We can be safe to connect on a much deeper level. The connection isn't requiring sameness.
April: 39:41
That's right. It's exactly true that there is such value in complimenting each other, not striving to be exactly the same all the time, and that's why HSPs exist. We add something that non-HSPs don't have that attention to detail, that slowing down to make really thoughtful decisions, that empathy that we give to somebody. We do our healing, creative work. We give that to the world. But we also need the non-HSPs that are going to come in. They're going to take charge or they're going to take risks, they're going to be more spontaneous, and let that bring us into that mix. So we need all different types, and that can especially true in relationships as well, not just at a bigger society level. But yeah, with two people, just think about how you could compliment each other with a partner, with a friend, with a co-worker. Yeah, it's so valuable to have difference.
Lauren: 40:37
Yeah, you know what, even as I hear you saying that and as we think about this together, my nervous system feels more soothed. Yeah, because I think a lot of our time and energy can get consumed by trying to convince or change, and that can feel stressful. And here's the other cool thing we can still have influence. We can still have influence, like I think, about you living the way you do, and I think I've mentioned this to you a few times before that just seeing how you live your life, how you give yourself that permission, that room to cultivate and curate days and weeks that work for you, just that has an impact. I watch you do it. I say to myself ooh, there are some things about how April lives her life that really resonate for me, and then I can make choices that are more affirming for myself. And it doesn't mean that I do my life exactly the way you do, but really just the style of tuning in and being intentional, that you do has an impact on people.
Lauren: 41:36
It's not that we're just different and that's the way it is. It's that we're different and that we're always dancing together.
April: 41:42
Yeah.
Lauren: 41:43
And we're in the flow of life and we're picking up on little clues and moments and things that, huh, maybe I need to stretch to meet this person in a new way because I love them and I want to give them that, or maybe I'm going to try a different way of being, because it either resonates for me or it hasn't yet and I want to see what happens when I try it. So that's a positive thing too is to be influenced by each other and to be willing to be influenced without losing ourselves.
April: 42:08
Yeah, exactly, and I appreciate you saying that, because I've also been influenced by you doing this podcast and just the way that you experience joy and let that take up space and that's been really healing for me to watch, because that's something that other people have not understood. I'm like, ah, laura would get this, laura, and we get this. And how beautiful that we can influence each other, despite having different experiences with highly sensitive people as therapists, as queer women in the world. But yet we can come together and there's always these really sweet moments of overlap, despite us living our own lives. And I want that for everyone, right, that we can just gently touch each other and influence each other.
April: 42:51
But we don't have to feel like we have to change ourselves, especially sensitive people. We forget that or we don't even know because, like you said, you used to think that sensitivity was fragility. A lot of other people have that same message. I have my similar messages where parts of my sensitivity were understood or were criticized, and I'm still unplanting those seeds. But if we can start to look at ourselves like here's what I have to offer and it's okay if other people are different, it's okay if I look differently than how other sensitive people. Look, that's great. We need that variety, that diversity. I appreciate you saying that. I'm curious if you had a message out there for sensitive listeners who maybe are struggling to feel that connection to themselves, that acceptance of themselves.
Lauren: 43:39
What would it be? So I will share this bit of wisdom that I have gained through learning about being an HSP and, if it fits for you, feel free to take it. On the other side of what we fear we are is a whole world, a whole technicolor world of strengths and specifically. I don't even know if I would say specifically, but there are things about who you are that are exactly what the world needs and what the people that you're going to encounter need, and that there are elements of who you are that are going to make your life even better, as you claim them for yourself. It's really a lifelong process of identifying your own wholeness, your own uniqueness, your own connectedness. As an HSP, I think now, when I describe what an HSP is, I think of it as having some abilities that let me make meaning of the world. I sometimes refer to HSP's in the family system who might think, oh, I'm not doing as much, or my family is going through a big transition and I'm just feeling deeply about it.
April: 44:58
And.
Lauren: 44:59
I like to think of us as resident poets, where it's like we're meaning makers and we're here to help people tap into their emotions too, because even non-HSP's feel, and just to consider that you're very needed for exactly who and how you are.
April: 45:16
That's it. I love that, like giving yourself time to come home to yourself. It's a lifelong journey and recognizing that who you are at the core does have a lot of value, and it may not touch everyone, but it's going to touch quite a few people, and the more that you can just allow your true self to flourish. There's just so much there that others are going to benefit from you. Don't have to mold yourself to what other people expect of you.
Lauren: 45:46
You're already enough yeah, and it really helps to hang out with a few people who get it from inside too. While we all have different worlds, it's sometimes nice to hang out with people who share an affinity for certain identities. Where there's certain things that we don't need to explain, it can be really affirming to just say I just have one of those moments where my coat was too hot on me when I got home and have a few people who get it it can be really nice to have that too.
April: 46:11
Yeah, community is so important where that being seen is just effortless. You don't have to explain it. People are like oh, I got it. Say no more. Lauren, thank you so much for everything you shared today and just whenever I talk to you, I just always feel so inspired and grounded and connected. It's always a joy and I'm wondering if folks want to connect with you more, how can they do that?
Lauren: 46:37
If you're interested in getting to know me, visit laurenselfridgecom. Or if you'd like to do a couples therapy or individual therapy consult, I offer free 15 minute phone consultations at laurenselfridgetherapycom.
April: 46:54
Thanks so much for joining me and Lauren for today's conversation. What I hope you'll remember is that it's possible to be deeply understood and to be able to understand the exact same experience, and that it's okay to take up space in all of your relationships To get there. You can invite others into your world, across your bridge, to help them understand what you need and take a break along the way as you figure it out. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind the scenes content and more HSP resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or SensitiveStoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
