42: Cutting Family Ties as an HSP
With Dr. Sharon Martin, LCSW + Author
Do you have a difficult relationship with a parent? In this episode, I talk with Dr. Sharon Martin about cutting family ties and:
• The most common reasons most people cut ties with parents or close family members
• The difference between going low and no contact
• How common it is to second guess your decision to cut ties and what to do if that happens
• What to say to people who attempt to guilt you into making amends with a dysfunctional family member
• Navigating special occasions and finding healing after estrangement
Sharon is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, psychotherapist, and author specializing in helping adult children recover from difficult childhoods. She identifies as a Highly Sensitive Person and a recovering perfectionist. Sharon is the author of four books: The CBT Workbook for Perfectionism, The Better Boundaries Workbook, The Better Boundaries Guided Journal, and Cutting Ties with Your Parents.
Keep in touch with Sharon:
• Website: https://www.livewellwithsharonmartin.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr_sharon_martin
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sharonmartinlcsw
Resources Mentioned:
• Cutting Ties with Your Parents by Dr. Sharon Martin: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781648483905
• The Better Boundaries Guided Journal by Dr. Sharon Martin: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781648482755
• The Better Boundaries Workbook by Dr. Sharon Martin: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781684037582
Thanks for listening!
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Dr. Sharon Martin: 0:38
recognizing that you are doing something that the rest of society is telling you is wrong. So of course that social pressure is going to add to the second thoughts and the ambivalence and the feeling like I'm doing something wrong, those feelings of guilt all super common. It's a normal thing to feel that way and it's not indicative of it being the wrong choice for you.
April Snow: 1:12
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Dr Sharon Martin about when it's necessary to make the difficult decision to go low or no contact with a parent or close family member, how to navigate the aftermath of this decision and what the healing process looks like. Sharon is a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist and author, specializing in helping adult children recover from difficult childhoods. She identifies as a highly sensitive person and a recovering perfectionist. Sharon is the author of four books the CBT Workbook for Perfectionism, the Better Boundaries Workbook, the Better Boundaries Guided Journal and her latest Cutting Ties with your Parents. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional.
April Snow: 2:41
Let's dive in. Welcome back, sharon. Some listeners might remember you from episode 17. We dove into the topic of boundaries and we're now talking about something adjacent to that, about your new book Cutting Ties with Parents, something that's personally relatable to me, so I'm excited to dive into this with you. I did want to start off by debunking a myth. We often hear that people assume this is a decision taken lightly, it's not thought through. Could you share why most people come to this decision that they need to cut ties with a parent or even a close family member?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 3:35
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I am really excited to talk about this topic and I think this is a really good and important place for us to begin, because there is a lot of misinformation that gets put out into the world and I think, again, we see a lot of this on social media, as we do on other topics as well. You know that there tends to be this narrative that adult children who cut ties with their parents are doing something that is selfish, it's mean, it's a rash decision that they haven't thought through, that they don't really have valid reasons for it and that they should really just sort of get with the program, be a part of the family. And again, I think there's part of this narrative is this is how everybody has done it in the past is you just deal with the family, no matter how dysfunctional it is, just show up, care for your elderly parents, if that's the situation you're in, or put up with the family member that abused you as a child. And it really is this again, sort of this dysfunctional narrative of just deal with it because they're your family.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 4:48
And I'll tell you, I you know, as in writing this book, I did a lot of research. So I read all of the academic research that has been done about why adult children cut ties with their parents and I've also been a therapist who has worked with many, many adult children who have been in this situation over the years and the answers are actually surprisingly consistent that adult children almost always say that they cut ties with their parents or family because they have been abused, mistreated, betrayed, not respected, rejected, not accepted for who they are some variation on that and so they feel like they have been mistreated by their families, and this is typically a pattern that began in childhood, that their family did not treat them well growing up, and has continued into adulthood. So they are now grown adults in relationship with their parents or other family members and they continue to be disrespected and criticized and put down and get emotionally abused, sometimes physically abused, right, so it's not a healthy relationship for them. There are, of course, some other reasons. I would say again, this is mostly what we're talking about here is abusive or what we often nowadays sort of call toxic relationships, but certainly there are situations where there is an adult child who has a major mental health problem or a substance problem. That can lead to the deterioration of the relationship and then cutting off contact with their families.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 6:27
And there are also situations that I think we hear more about now today of just differing values between adult children and their family of origin, which, again, I think if we really got into that, we would see that there's an overlap there between the differing values and the feeling mistreated. It's not simply that we disagree, it's the way that that plays out in the relationship. So that's really what adult children are saying is this is years in the making. For me, this has been a long time coming. I have thought about this, I have tried various amounts of contact, I have tried different ways of expressing my grievances, of asking for things to change, and it hasn't changed.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 7:10
And again, so not something that is just a one-off that we're talking about for the most part. I think sometimes it feels like that to the rest of the family which, again, if we really got into it, we would start to see that there's a communication breakdown such that the adult child has been trying to say there's a problem and people have not been listening, they have not wanted to hear it, they have minimized it, they have not wanted to deal with it, which, again, is very much a hallmark of a lot of dysfunctional families is we just don't deal with problems. We scapegoat somebody, we shove the problem under the rug and try to pretend like everything's fine here.
April Snow: 7:51
Exactly, this problem didn't just begin. This is a years long problem where the child often has tried multiple times to be heard, to be seen, to shift the pattern of what's happening in the family, and it's often not just happening with the parents, it's happening with the grandparents, but the rest of the family as well. And yeah, we've been told to, like you said, get with the program right, just follow the line, do what you're told, look the other way and you get to a point where there's a limit. You can only take so much. And it starts to then impact your own mental health, your own sanity, your own physical health even, and you have to maybe think okay, I need to change something.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 8:28
Yes, and it often starts interfering with other relationships that the adult child has with their partner or with their own children. I often see things reach a breaking point sometimes when somebody has their own children and they say I don't want to repeat this pattern, I don't want my parents to do to my children what they did to me. Or again, I see that there are problems here and I want to protect my kids from them as well.
April Snow: 8:54
Absolutely, you want to break that cycle, and the only way to do that is to make the hard decision and potentially become the scapegoat or the problem person in the family. Yes, the black sheep, the black sheep.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 9:05
Thank you.
April Snow: 9:05
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 9:06
I know we have scapegoats and black sheep. What's up with that? Yeah, and one of the things that I always say to my clients because a lot of them are the scapegoat or the black sheep of the family is often the person who's in that role, the one who has been cast out and really vilified, is often the healthiest person emotionally in that family because they are the one who is calling out the problems that nobody else wants to acknowledge, which again means you can't be a part of the family group in the same way because you're over here saying, hey, something's got to change. This is not healthy, this is abusive, we've got issues here, but of course that is a healthy thing to do. Right, this is how we get ourselves mentally healthy. This is how we get relationships healthier. As we acknowledge problems, we figure out how to solve them if possible, and then things can change. But if we don't, then we just right. That's the being stuck in the cycle. It just goes on and on and on that nobody's doing anything about it.
April Snow: 10:10
Exactly, and to maintain your own health you do have to break that cycle and then risk disrupting the family. Does that mean that you're then losing your other family members? This is something I'm always trying to figure out. Do you have to then cut ties with other folks who maybe don't understand your decision, or you're then risking being in contact with a family member you don't want to be with, so then you're kind of opting out of the family system altogether.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 10:35
Well, it's complicated and it's not the same for everybody, but, to be honest, I think people need to understand that that is a possibility, not necessarily because you have decided. If I cut ties with my parents, I also have to cut ties with my grandparents or my siblings. But sometimes they cut ties with you because, again, when you're the one who is essentially disrupting the family system, you are challenging the hierarchy in the family and the power dynamics. That means that oftentimes the person who has the most power so we'll just call this the abusive person in the family for our purposes right now, right, they feel challenged because you are again, you're calling it out and you're sort of setting that ultimate boundary of saying I'm not putting up with this, I'm going to opt out of this, I'm going to distance myself or have no contact with you. They will then try to get the rest of the family members on their side and again scapegoat you and say you're the problem, and this is what we will see as sort of the smear campaign.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 11:42
Oftentimes people will talk about this where there's gossip, there's rumors, they're bad mouthing you, they're really just making up often a lot of just unbelievable stuff about you. Well, I shouldn't say it's unbelievable because some people do believe it and that's why it's so hurtful and dangerous, but I mean it's unbelievable in the sense that it's completely unfounded things. It's unbelievable in the sense that it's completely unfounded things but for the very specific purposes of damaging you and your reputation and trying to get the rest of the family to again cut ties with you, and I would say that really is is an effort to punish you for standing up to them, because that feels like that's, you know, again going against everything about the way this family system is trying to operate. So anyway, with that being said, I would say it also depends on the strength and the type of relationship that you had with other family members prior to cutting ties.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 12:39
It's not impossible to maintain relationships with some family members. Sometimes you can do that separately. You know so. For example, if it was the holidays and you opted out of the main family, get together. Maybe it's possible for you to do something a different time with your sister. Or if it's a family wedding and you've decided that you're not going to go to that again, maybe there's a way for you to celebrate that couple apart from the main family gatherings and celebrations.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 13:11
So sometimes we can do that. You know, I would encourage people, if that's important to them, to try to figure out ways to maintain those relationships. But of course I think it's important that we're realistic and understanding that sometimes, because the way family relationships are interconnected, that we do lose connections with other people as well.
April Snow: 13:30
Absolutely, and, as you said, sometimes it's not our choice. Other people are going to buckle down and want to preserve that family system. Yeah, so you have to have folks who are willing to step outside of it. You mentioned the phrase no contact. What's the difference between no contact and low contact?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 13:45
Yeah, yeah. Well, no contact, I would say, is pretty much what it sounds like, where you have said, right, there's nothing, we are not going to see each other in person, we're not going to have any form of communication or interaction. This is usually, you know, the most extreme. So it might include blocking phone numbers, blocking people on social media, social media and again, sometimes it is so that you're not having contact with that person directly, but also you don't want to be getting any information about them that's coming in, because, again, it can be very upsetting and very hurtful to be seeing what they are doing or what they are saying online or in other forums. And then low contact is something in between of fully engaged in the relationship and having no contact.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 14:37
And really probably the most accurate way for us to think about family estrangement is on a spectrum that it is very common, I would say the most common scenario really is that people have varying amounts of contact with their family over time. That ebbs and flows, so we have a little contact, we have more contact, something happens and then we pull back and there's less, or there might be a year or two even of no contact, and then something changes and you decide I'm going to give it another try, or it's grandma's funeral and I really want to go, and so then I, you know, have some contact. So the idea of completely no contact is certainly an option and it works and it holds for some people I would say, forever. But I would say the far more common is really that there's this shifting of you know, some flexibility in that, but again with the specific intention that you are going to be mindful about how much contact you have and you're constantly evaluating is this working for me, having this much contact? You know, has something changed and it makes sense for me to have more contact. Is this working out or is it not, and do I need to pull back? So yeah, so it really often changes for people and I think sometimes that's just helpful to know that that's really common.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 16:02
So if you set out thinking, okay, I'm cutting ties, I'm not going to have contact with this person or people, and then you end up having some contact, that's not a failure on your part, right? That doesn't happen. The end goal is not necessarily I should be having no contact with somebody who has been hurtful for me. It is figuring out what makes sense for you, how much capacity do you have for being in this relationship at this moment? And again, that changes for people. I just call it like your emotional bandwidth, like, do you have the ability, do you have the coping skills, do you have the support system? What else is going on in your life? And again, if you're thinking about a specific event, you might say, okay, well, this holiday season I really don't have the bandwidth. There's a lot of other things going on in my life, in the world. I just can't do it.
April Snow: 16:58
That might not be the case a year or two years from now, and so if things change again, either with you or with the family, you know things can change with the relationship and the amount of contact as well you know, things can change with the relationship and the amount of contact as well, and it's helpful to know there's flexibility and you get to decide to lean in or pull away, depending on what's going on, and you may want to break that no contact. So you get to attend a funeral, a wedding, or you may not. And I love that flexibility of how am I doing in the moment, what capacity emotional bandwidth do I have, and I can decide there. How am I doing in the moment, what capacity, emotional bandwidth do I have, and I can decide there. Let's say you're starting to second guess your decision. What does that mean when that's happening?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 17:37
Okay. Well, again, I would say it's really common, completely normal, to be ambivalent about it, and it definitely doesn't mean that you're making the wrong decision or that you're doing something wrong. I really think about the ambivalence as a function of there's a lot at stake, and anytime you're making a big decision where there's a lot at stake, it's normal to have doubts. You're going to second guess yourself. I mean, even just think about if you were going to make a complete career change or move across the country. It would be completely normal to have second thoughts, even like people getting married. It's very common to have cold feet. Right Doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. And then the other thing here is that you're doing something that is really going against the grain. There's a lot of social pressure, as we mentioned earlier, to stay engaged with the family system and so recognizing again that you are doing something that the rest of society is telling you is wrong. So of course, that social pressure is going to add to the second thoughts and the ambivalence and the feeling like I'm doing something wrong, I'm doing something bad, those feelings of guilt all super common. So, again, I think it's helpful to frame that as just it's a normal thing to feel that way and it's not indicative of it being the wrong choice for you. Certainly, it's helpful to understand why you're making the choice, and I think talking about that with a safe person or writing it down can be really helpful in getting the clarity that you need, because, again, the ambivalence may linger there, but it's still good for you to say, okay, I know why I've gotten to this point, I know why I'm making this decision. So when somebody says to you you know what's wrong with you, why are you doing that? They question your decision, they put the guilt trip on you. You don't necessarily need to explain it to them or justify it to them, but you want to know inside yourself that I've thought this through, I've given this a lot of thought, I've reflected on it, I've talked it over with my dear friend or my therapist or my coach or a spiritual advisor whoever that might be for you and I know that I have exhausted all reasonable options here. I've given it my best shot and that doesn't mean that I need to keep giving it my best shot for the rest of my life. Right, it is okay to say this is not working for me and that's a reasonable conclusion to come to. And again, I think if we frame this as this is something that I am doing for my own well-being and I deserve to be happy and healthy and to be free of relationships that are toxic and hurtful and harmful to me, you know, then we can start to give ourselves the permission that will help lessen the ambivalence. But again, I would say, don't be concerned if that ambivalence and those second guesses continue for quite a long time.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 20:56
It's really such a painful decision, such a painful situation to have been in and difficult. But everything that led up to it has been really painful and difficult. And that's again years and years worth of challenges and people putting you down often and second-guessing you. That for a lot of folks who are in this situation, they have also really been essentially trained from a very young age not to trust their own feelings, not to trust their instincts, not to feel like their needs are valid or important. So again, we're working against a lot of the things that we learned about ourselves and so that can be a pretty lengthy process of undoing some of that and it can come but recognize that if you're just fresh at this of you know, thinking about how much contact you want to have or considering pulling back. You know that there are a number of things that are working against you in terms of just feeling super confident about it.
April Snow: 22:01
Right right, it's helpful to know that that doubt is natural. It makes sense, given just the gravity of the decision. And I appreciate you saying the other piece, which is you're going up against a lot of messaging and years of conditioning that you don't talk about it, you don't disrupt the system, you just kind of get in line your needs, don't get to take up space at the forefront. So just know there's a lot of unlearning to do and that takes time, makes sense.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 22:29
Yeah absolutely.
April Snow: 22:30
You mentioned that you don't have to explain yourself to other people, but what about those family members or those people who really lean into the guilt to make amends Like, oh, that's your mother, you're going to regret it later. You know they're doing the best they can. How do we navigate those conversations?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 22:48
Well, I think, as you're getting at here is there are some people who are just going to keep at it. The way that you're approaching it is hurtful. You know something along those lines, and so that there is a very clear message of saying this is a decision that I have made. And again, this is where sometimes, even if you feel some doubt, still you want to project out that you have more confidence in it and say this is a decision that I've made for myself. You know, I appreciate your concern, but I really don't want to talk about it with you. Or I'll let you know if I want your input or your advice, but right now I've got it covered. Or you can play around with the phrases and when doing this, it can be really helpful to write down some sample scripts for yourself so that it feels like it's authentic, a way that you would say it to somebody and or practice it with somebody that you feel safe doing that, so that when those inevitable conversations and comments come up because it is for most people it's fairly predictable If I ask them who is going to challenge you, who's going to push your boundaries on this, who's going to put the guilt trip on you. They know who it's going to be most likely, and so be prepared for it. I think that's your best defense here is have a plan, know what you're going to say. You can say it in a direct and clear way, but also with kindness. It doesn't need to be harsh or mean. And again, I think when we have planned it out and we feel prepared, we're much more likely to say it in a nice way than it to just be that reflexive in the moment. You know, I can't believe you're saying this to me again for the 20th time here. I am asking you to please leave me to figure this out for myself. So certainly there, I think there's a group of people that we need to have that real clear, firm boundary with and just basically be saying you know this is off limits, right?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 24:58
The gray area, of course, is much harder to figure out, which is are there some people in your life that it does make sense to explain a little bit more about the situation? And I say this because I think there are often some people who truly are well-meaning and they have families that are functional and they truly cannot understand that families could treat people the way your family has treated you, and so it's like they just you know you're kind of speaking a different language to them almost, and so for these folks, sometimes sharing a little bit more about what your experiences have been can help them to understand and then they can be more compassionate towards you. But again, it's a very vulnerable thing to do because certainly any time that we are talking about painful experiences, abuse that we have experienced, there is a chance that people will not understand that they would minimize that or even potentially use it against you. So we want to weigh that decision carefully.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 26:11
The upside, of course, is that it can also bring a lot of closeness to a relationship. When we share something vulnerable about ourselves, right, and then often the other person will reciprocate and share something more vulnerable about them, and then, right, we develop this emotional connection. That can be quite powerful. But I hope that people don't end up in a situation where they are really just feeling like I'm needing to justify my reasons, because that's not what we're talking about here. We're really talking about if it's a situation where we can genuinely be building closeness and connection in a trusting way, rather than I'm giving you the list of all the things that my parents did to me and you're over there saying it doesn't sound like that was that bad right. If you start getting that vibe from somebody, I would definitely say pull back. This relationship isn't in a place where this is going to be helpful for you.
April Snow: 27:07
Yeah, it's true that some people are going to approach with curiosity, wanting to understand. But we may have that reaction that, oh, everyone is trying to push my boundaries here. But that's not true. Some people might just want to be getting to know you understanding, because they did have a different experience. But, yeah, look out for those markers of safety. Are they curious or are they questioning or minimizing? That's a good way to check in and see is this somebody I want to share with, Because this is a very vulnerable part of your life?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 27:38
Yeah, I like that way of phrasing it. Are they curious? And then you're constantly evaluating their response. Right Again, share something smaller and see how they respond and then, if it goes well, you can share more, that's true, just slowly open up different levels.
April Snow: 27:56
Yeah, yeah, right.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 27:57
Exactly. We don't want to just start with everything all at once if we're not sure about how this person is going to react and if they're going to be able to be supportive Absolutely.
April Snow: 28:07
So we've talked about the hardships of making this decision, of communicating it to others. Is there a point that we get to feel acceptance, we get to feel some peace with it? What does that look like?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 28:30
transition because, you're right, we have talked so much about how challenging it is and how painful it all can be, but obviously, once we start to truly accept the reality of our family situation, it then allows us to move forward or have some freedom from the situation. Right, there's sort of this liberation, there's often relief that people feel when they cut ties or when they have some lesser amount of contact with family members that are being hurtful to them. So absolutely, there is healing really that can come from this. And I think, as you're saying, you know we want to be thinking about how can we accept both our decision and the reality of the dysfunction in the family that led us to have to make the decision. Because that's where we're able to move beyond the second guessing and the self-doubt about it, because we are grounded in this reality of knowing that there are certain problems in our family and knowing from our life experience that it's unlikely to change, and from there we're able to, I think, grieve what has happened in the family and also so that's sort of grieving the reality again of what is, and also being able to grieve what you didn't get the family that you never had, the love that you didn't get from your family the acceptance.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 30:09
So there's often this, I don't know, I kind of just call it the dream of you know, wishing for your family to be different, or it could be something very specific, wishing they were going to be like that sitcom family on TV or your best friend's family. You know, we again, we get so much messaging about what a loving, supportive family is supposed to look like and what they are supposed to do, and so when you don't have that, there's a loss of something that's sort of intangible because you didn't have it. So you're kind of like, well, how do you grieve something that you don't have? But I think, if we can acknowledge that that's a loss, because it's something that we all want to have and it's something that, when it doesn't exist, leaves a real hole for you, there's something that's missing. That kind of carries with you just this sense of not having missing something that you were supposed to have.
April Snow: 31:06
It's so true. It's difficult to grieve an experience you never actually lived, but you've only seen from the outside. So it sounds like the path to acceptance, though, is through grief. Work is honoring those losses.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 31:21
Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. And, like I was saying, I think, just being really cognizant of what is happening in the family, because that allows us to make peace with our decision, because we understand why we had to make it Right. Right, if we aren't realistic about what's happening, then we stay in the wishful thinking stage of things. We're thinking, oh, maybe it'll get better, maybe something will change. This year Christmas will be different or Mother's Day will be different. And as long as we are stuck in that place, we're never going to move forward. We're going to just continue again and again putting up with mistreatment, making excuses for it, coming up with some other way of trying to resolve the problems ourselves.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 32:15
And if we're honest with ourselves, we can say here's how long this has been going on, here's the various things that I've tried over the years, here's been the impact of it on me, here's been the impact on other people and so forth.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 32:29
And if we look at it almost in this factual way, we can say, okay, this doesn't make sense for me to continue to suffer. You know, given the information that I have, I don't have any indication here that things are going to change, any indication here that things are going to change Right, right, right. I mean, if you did get some, some information that something had changed again, something concrete here. You know, and I'm talking about something like, let's just say, if part of the family dysfunction was your mother's alcoholism and you hear that mom has gone to rehab and she's got six months clean and sober, that would be a factual piece of information that says, ok, well, maybe something might be changed here, right, right. But again, short of that information, you know your cousin just saying, oh, your mom seems great. That's not enough information, right, to say, ok, something has really changed here, something has really changed here.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 33:27
So I'm talking about something really very specific that we can go on, because otherwise we're just living in a fantasy land of wishing things are going to be different and that, unfortunately, is just a setup for more pain and suffering for us. Again, I think this path to acceptance and healing really has to include accepting of how bad things are and again, that's not an easy thing to do, I mean, even though I think most people who are listening to this are obviously not in complete denial or they wouldn't even be listening to this conversation right. But again, it's just. It's very common and it's very understandable that you can want to stay, have a certain amount of denial, because again, it's very painful to acknowledge just how problematic your family has been and how hurtful they have been.
April Snow: 34:16
Yeah, it's true it's a hard reality to look at and face, but such a necessary part of the process. It's not just accepting this decision, it's accepting the reality of your family and just saying this is how my family operates and if it's not changing, I need to make a different choice for myself to survive have a chance, yeah, and so when you're second guessing, looking at what's in front of you, that's what helps me.
April Snow: 34:43
Actually I'm like, wait, this is still happening. This is still happening. The past is still the past. I feel justified in my decision and, yeah, we really need to sit with it. And yeah, the denial helps you get through for a while, but at some point it stops working, because then you just keep getting hurt.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 34:59
Well, yeah, and I mean, if we use the analogy of substance use or addiction, I mean, it's that same kind of thing, right, the denial does help minimize the pain while you're in that situation, but if anything is going to change, we have to break through the denial, right we have to say this is what's really happening, so it is a key piece of it. Yeah, so important.
April Snow: 35:23
Well, sharon, as we start to wrap up, I wonder if there's a final message you could share with the HSPs who are listening, who are on that spectrum of estrangement that you talked about.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 35:32
Yeah.
April Snow: 35:32
What message could you leave them with?
Dr. Sharon Martin: 35:34
Well, first of all, I really want to reiterate that this is not your fault. It's very easy to get into a place of self-blame and feeling guilty and feeling inadequate or that you're doing something wrong. The shame all of that. Again, because we can feel things so deeply. We're very susceptible to the pressure, either from society at large or very specific people in our lives, and just internal as well, that we will take that on and internalize it, and so try to remind yourself that it is okay, it's actually very healthy and necessary to put your needs first and to take care of yourself. I probably say this every time I talk about anything I feel like, but self-compassion is just so important, it's so necessary for us to get through challenging situations in our lives. So to acknowledge that this is painful, this is a struggle, it is a difficult situation, and then to try to give yourself some kindness, some love, some support, is really super important. I think also trying to get support from the outside is really important as well, and I say this knowing that it's really hard. As an introvert myself, it's not easy to ask for support and, again, on a topic that is very misunderstood and sometimes demonized, it's extra difficult to reach out for support. And I will also say I mean another unfortunate challenge is there's not as much support out there as there needs to be for adult children who are in this situation. It's not an uncommon situation, but you wouldn't know that if you went looking specifically for support groups or sometimes even for therapists who specialize in this. So, again, it's challenging and I know there's some roadblocks there. But whether that's professional support or informal support, just friends, we definitely know that any kind of challenging life situation, it's helpful to get support. It helps lighten our load emotionally when we have other people there for us. So try to do that, even if that's just baby steps, of trying to build some connections in person, online, with the therapist or somebody else as well.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 38:03
And then my last thing that I will say is just again one more reiterating that, despite what anybody else says, cutting ties, no contact, low contact, whatever form that takes for you, can absolutely be a healthy decision for you.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 38:20
I say that as a therapist who sees this every day, that I have so many clients who tell me I'm so glad I did this, it was so difficult, but my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner. Honestly, I hear a lot and again, there's not a lot of research yet, but there is some that also indicates that this can be a healthy decision for you. So, as we're doing it, we're really working against a lot of those social structures that are telling us otherwise. But, just like any other dysfunctional relationship, it's really hard to heal when you're still in the dysfunctional or abusive relationship. So stepping aside, stepping back from it whether that's temporary or whether that's permanent really can give us the space, the time, the energy that we need to do some of the emotional healing. And then again you can reevaluate whether you want to have any contact with this person in the future or not. That will be up to you, but I think you're probably better equipped to make that decision once you have been able to do some of the healing work.
April Snow: 39:29
That will benefit you, that's so true. Right, get yourself out of the tornado so you can get some perspective right, and then you can decide from there. And just like any boundary, it's flexible, you get to change your mind. But just being able to carve out some of that compassion for yourself is so critical, and just figuring out what you need to do next.
Dr. Sharon Martin: 39:49
Yeah.
April Snow: 39:50
Thank you so much, sharon. It's so true that there is a deficit of resources in this area, so I was especially excited to see your new book come out, cutting ties with your parents. I'll share that in the show notes for folks, plus your other books on boundaries and perfectionism, your website, your social media, just so folks can dive in and start to reflect and lean into some of these resources. Thank you so much. Great Thank you. Thanks so much for joining me and Sharon for today's conversation.
April Snow: 40:22
What I hope you're taking away is that sometimes cutting ties with a parent or family member is necessary for your own survival and that healing the grief, anger and shame for making such a difficult and necessary decision is possible. If you are considering a no contact boundary with someone that you're close to or you need support and healing from estrangement, pick up Sharon's book cutting ties with Parents at the link in the show notes or wherever you find your books. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSP resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, tiktok and YouTube, Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
