22: Coming Home to Your True Self with Somatic Healing Work
With Dr. Danica Harris
Are you feeling disconnected with your body and constantly pushing yourself to do more? In this episode, I talk with Dr. Danica Harris about coming home to yourself and:
• Carving out space and time to reconnect with your true self as an HSP
• Finding ways to resource and care for your sensitive nervous system
• The importance of somatic work for healing chronic overwhelm and trauma
• Listening to your body’s basic needs as the first step to healing
• Leaning into what’s available and making small changes to resource yourself
• Slowing down to focus on what’s important and essential for your healing
Danica is a trained Psychologist turned Somatic Coach who co-owns a group therapy practice in Dallas, TX. Danica is a highly sensitive person and specializes in working with HSPs with a complex trauma history. Danica loves sharing free trauma-informed resources on her popular Instagram page @theempoweredtherapist and she has turned this resource into a company that supports folx who want to dive deeper into their healing work through courses, retreats, virtual somatic groups, and trainings for therapists.
Keep in touch with Danica:
• Website: www.theempoweredtherapist.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theempoweredtherapist
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/empoweredhealingdallas
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@empoweredhealingdallas
Resources Mentioned:
• Somatic Movement + Meditation Virtual Group: https://theempoweredtherapist.com/group
• Somatic Coaching with Danica: https://theempoweredtherapist.com/coaching
• Therapy Services: www.empoweredhealingdallas.com
• Healing Focused Self-Care Strategies Course: https://the-empowered-therapist-s-learning-lounge.teachable.com/p/healing-focused-self-care-strategies
• Healing Your Way Home Retreat is an all-inclusive somatic-focused retreat, designed for those who want or need an immersive healing experience. Come let us tend to your nervous system while you step away from the duties and responsibilities of everyday life so you have the space you need to really connect with yourself. Sign up for the waitlist here: https://theempoweredtherapist.com/offerings
Thanks for listening!
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Dr. Danica Harris: 0:00
someone else's response to us having that need isn't actually our problem, and I know that's hard. I mean, even as I say it, I'm like oh yeah, right, when you're in relationship with someone, it feels like it's your problem and in order to be well-resourced, we cannot take on other people's needs.
April Snow: 0:23
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, April Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP, without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Dr Danica Harris about carving out space and time to reconnect with your true self as an HSP, finding ways to resource and care for your sensitive nervous system, and the importance of somatic work for healing chronic overwhelm and trauma. And the importance of somatic work for healing chronic overwhelm and trauma.
April Snow: 1:05
Danica is a trained psychologist turned somatic coach who co-owns a group therapy practice in Dallas, Texas. Danica is a highly sensitive person and specializes in working with HSPs with a complex trauma history. Danica loves sharing free trauma-informed resources on her popular Instagram page, the Empowered Therapist, and she has turned this resource into a company that supports folks who want to dive deeper into their healing work through courses, retreats, virtual somatic groups and trainings for therapists. For more HSP resources and to see behind-the-scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, TikTok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. So, Danica, could you start off by telling us your HSP discovery story, how and when you realized that you're a highly sensitive person?
Dr. Danica Harris: 2:33
Yeah, I went to. Well, I guess it's actually a two-part story, which I'm sure it's like multi-layered for many of us. Yes, I had a therapist that I was seeing while I was in graduate school, so like kind of my second half of grad school, and she asked me just like very point blank, without any detail or explanation of what it was. She was just like are you a highly sensitive person? And it came following this conversation that we had had about emotions and so about my emotions and particularly about my emotions being big emotions, and so about my emotions and particularly about my emotions being big. And I remember just feeling so put off by the question because it sounded like almost derogatory yes and so, but of course it sat with me right. So like I heard the question and I was like no.
April Snow: 3:23
I don't think so.
Dr. Danica Harris: 3:23
Because what I heard her say was like are you emotionally overreacting or are you emotionally like, like dysregulated or something, which that might've been the case as well, and you know that's not what she was asking. And then maybe it was like two or three months after that, I went to this intensive. It was like six or seven day long training that was focused on complex trauma and one of the days was focused on highly sensitive people and we so we heard a little bit about it and I was like, oh, I remember this concept. And then we watched Sensitive by Lillian Aaron and watching that was just like. I felt like this awakening was happening for me as I was watching that and I was like, oh, this is me, this makes sense. And then we had, of course, a debrief and some training stuff about it and I was like this is 100% me. So that's how I came to know it, first to learn of the term and then also to identify with it.
April Snow: 4:13
I love the journey that you went on, which I've heard before with folks that initial reaction is no, this is not me, because it does. It can feel derogatory, like an insult, especially if you've been told you're too sensitive, you're too fragile you know all the things we hear as sensitive people so there can be that immediate defense or protection. But then once you actually step into what it really is and get the full picture which and I'm excited that you were able to see that documentary at a training that's amazing.
Dr. Danica Harris: 4:42
Yeah, it was great. It was so great. It's interesting because I've now shown that documentary in classes I've taught. And then, of course and you know, I think a lot of therapists probably are not all, but I think a lot of us are highly sensitive and it was so interesting. When I came back from that training, I was like telling everyone in my life like I'm highly sensitive and everyone was like, yes, this makes sense for you. Then I was like giving all of my friends who I just knew I was like you're highly sensitive too, so I'm like giving them the quiz to take online and it actually is like a big part of my life now and a big part of dialogue in my own community and certainly with clients too.
April Snow: 5:21
It's funny, I did the exact same thing because at the time I was in grad school and working at a counseling center and I just I remember being in the office and giving everyone the self-test, yes, and I was around a lot of sensitive people going to more of a non-traditional school. But, yeah, you can kind of I don't know if this was true for you, but you'd know who the people are, yes, once you learn about their like, oh you, you and you.
Dr. Danica Harris: 5:45
Yes, for sure, for sure. Well, and I like I felt like I was also able to discern, like, who definitely wasn't yes, and maybe like why we weren't necessarily like experiencing things similarly, at least when it came to like emotionality and like, I think, like sensation in particular, like different environments being over-stimulating, or feeling like really reactive in different settings and then watching other people, especially peers at work, not experience that. I think that helped me to see like, oh, we're just different and right or wrong?
April Snow: 6:17
Thank you, it's not right or wrong, it's just different. Yes, that's such an important message so you're easily able to tell, based on how people responded to their environments, to what was going on for the people that you knew were sensitive. What were you, what were you seeing in them?
Dr. Danica Harris: 6:35
well, I'm thinking about like two of my closest girlfriends.
Dr. Danica Harris: 6:37
Pretty immediately, like even during the training, I was like, oh, both of them are too, and I think what drew me to immediately think of them is that kind of our shared passionate interest around like the arts, like each of us being like very into music and concerts and live theater and being like kind of emotionally on the surface, like our emotions being more at the surface and being tearful more easily either because of upset or because of joy.
Dr. Danica Harris: 7:04
And then just also I think both of these friends in particular like having the language, the surface and being tearful more easily, either because of upset or because of joy. And then just also I think both of these friends in particular like having the language around their own internal experience, like a lot of awareness and knowing of their internal experience. So that kind of I think for me, as I was like really coming to understand all of the different ways someone can be an HSP, I think, the two of them being more similar to me, I was like, oh well, if I am, they probably are. And because we share these things, and then, of course, like once I started really understanding, oh, some people can be higher in certain traits than others. That helped me to kind of see cause.
Dr. Danica Harris: 7:36
I see that with clients too, like I'll have a client where they're highly sensitive in ways that are different from mine. Right, but the nuance took time for me to understand.
April Snow: 7:44
Yeah, it's like those people that want to go deep in various ways. Yeah, yeah, and we're all different, but I think we all shared that, whatever our interest is, our passion is we want to dive and go all in, and it's lovely to be able to pick that up. And other people are like, oh, we're similar in this way.
Dr. Danica Harris: 8:01
Yes.
April Snow: 8:02
Yeah, when you realize that you're sensitive or highly sensitive, what changed in how you take care of yourself? Did that shift at all, once you realize, oh, I have this trait.
Dr. Danica Harris: 8:10
Yes, a hundred percent. And actually, that was something that remains, something that I'm really really proud of in myself, because I feel like I pivoted pretty quickly. It was almost as if like that, like having some sort of organizational system for myself or having having a way to think of myself and like me in my environments like it.
Dr. Danica Harris: 8:33
It allowed me to soften to myself and that's something that's very important to me when I'm in the work that I do. It's all about, like, gentleness and softening and validation, and and I think a lot of that for me came from understanding myself as highly sensitive and knowing that, like I don't have to keep pushing myself in ways that are causing me harm. This isn't about me being deficient or not being able to handle big things. I handle a lot of big things.
Dr. Danica Harris: 8:59
I've historically handled a lot of big things, but like if the if the lighting is causing me a headache, I can change the lighting, or if there's something about my schedule that's not working for me, I can advocate for myself within it. I mean, it's part of even the transition into private practice was being able to take some ownership over what my schedule and life look like, and of course, that's a privilege to be able to do that, and I was not thriving in your kind of typical eight to five high overhead lights. No, no, autonomy over my schedule it was. I felt it was really depleting my capacity and also just my ability to function well.
April Snow: 9:41
It does, and we have to be able to look at what can I change? So if you can't go out on your own, you can't work for yourself which I also think is a very important for a lot of HSPs to have that autonomy, to have choice. But if you can't, what can you change? How can you advocate for yourself with what you have control over? Why not turn the light down?
Dr. Danica Harris: 10:01
Right.
April Snow: 10:02
It can open up space for something else. And yeah right, it really does.
Dr. Danica Harris: 10:08
Yeah, that's been something I think just even I can like become sensationally overloaded, like too much stimuli coming in will kind of flip me into overload pretty quickly. And so I've gotten pretty good at even like you know, if I'm like sharing space with another person and maybe they don't experience the world in the same way like I'll sometimes find that that person might be able to handle like more stimuli than I can, and I've just gotten really good at saying like this overloads me instead of I don't like it.
April Snow: 10:37
Yes.
Dr. Danica Harris: 10:38
And I and I do, I totally agree with you. I think it's about what can we change, and sometimes we overlook the smaller things we can change, like turning the TV down, changing the lights, reducing stimulation in our environment through even like tactile sensation, you know, and really like, well, what can I do right here, right now, to like that meet up for like a better experience of the day, because there are going to be things we don't have control over.
April Snow: 11:02
Great, but we can, you know those little things make a big difference because of our differential susceptibility. A little goes a long way, which I love to remind people of. I don't really like to use this word too much, but it is like our superpower that we can benefit greatly from little, small changes. You talked a lot about the sensory experience. Can we talk a little bit more about why it's important to focus on our physical experiences, hsps, our somatic experience?
Dr. Danica Harris: 11:30
Yeah, of course we never like accidentally find ourselves in this material right, like I found out I was an HSP and then like found myself to like body based healing work.
April Snow: 11:39
And.
Dr. Danica Harris: 11:40
I'm sure all of this is very connected for me, right? But yeah, I think you know some of it's what you just said, like being able to like have small changes have a big impact. I think it's also about increasing body awareness and in a way where, like, the person doesn't feel just the activated sense. So I want to, for me, I want to know that my internal experience isn't merely the activation that runs in the background all the time of my life. Because of trauma history, I want to know that I can have varying and differential sensations in my body, and so if I can attend to varying sensations externally, I might be able to increase that interoception or that inner knowing as well, and so I do think there's really some sort of relationship between those things. The way I'll kind of focus in on that with clients, whether they're highly sensitive or not, is like let's just talk about meeting the basic needs of life, like hydration, nourishment, rest cues, bathroom cues, and that stands to teach us a lot about our external and internal environments, I think.
April Snow: 12:45
That's something I've been trying to do more Just take care of my basic needs. Am I hungry? Do I have to go to the bathroom? Do I need a break? Do I need to rest? Can we say more about why that's so important of starting there with our basic cues? I think that's helpful.
Dr. Danica Harris: 13:00
Yeah, I think for a number of reasons. Like we're just as people, all of us are pretty disconnected. I almost think of it as like a hill we jump over. You know, it's like we come into the world with most of us, you know, depending on our biology, we come into the world pretty aware of, or we can quickly get to being aware of, all of those internal cues and sensations. And then we engage with people socially and we engage in systems that tell us like actually no, you eat on a schedule or you go to the bathroom between classes or you know whatever it is. And so I think, very early on in our development we actually get pretty disconnected from our internal knowing. And if we're disconnected from our internal knowing about our basic needs, then it becomes, I believe, really challenging to know some of the more complex knowing or to be in access to some of that more complex knowing. Like it's really hard for us to suss out relationship stuff with someone, with our emotions and sensations and everything else when, like, I don't even know, when I'm thirsty.
April Snow: 14:03
Right, right, you're completely disconnected, right.
Dr. Danica Harris: 14:06
Right, you're completely disconnected. Yeah, and it's not low thread, because it's certainly like hydration and nourishment. Those are like, if we don't have those things, that's very dangerous to our bodies. But they're not typically up for debate topics, like most, most of us would not say like, oh, I don't need water to live or I don't need nourishment to survive, right, so it's not an emotionally laden topic. So, you know, a lot of times I'll have I'll be sitting with a client doing somatic work and they're wanting to resolve or work through something very complex. And and I'll say we got to start here, though, we have to start with some of these basic needs being attended to, because if you can tell me when you're thirsty and you know just me for the purposes of the session I know you're going to be better equipped at understanding the variety of sensations that exist in your body.
April Snow: 14:51
Right, we're slowly leading up, reconnecting with ourselves. Would you find that HSPs are? This may be too general, but are more disconnected because we've often been taught to ignore our needs. You don't feel that you don't need that? Push yourself through so you can show up like everyone else. Is that something that you see?
Dr. Danica Harris: 15:10
I do see that and I think simultaneously we're quicker to overwhelm as well. So it's like disconnected and also more overwhelmed at the same time, and I think that then you know, if they find their way into some of these body based or bottom up sorts of healing modalities, then it's like okay, well, let's start by just like validating that like, yep, you're disconnected because you've been taught to be, and also you're overwhelmed because of how disconnected you are and how overstimulating the external environment is.
April Snow: 15:41
Mm, hmm, and when we're overwhelmed, constantly starting with the basics is the best way in For everybody, really, but especially if you're overwhelmed by your environment.
Dr. Danica Harris: 15:52
I think so.
April Snow: 15:53
Yeah, can you talk about for folks that don't know what bottom-up is?
Dr. Danica Harris: 15:59
Yes, I realize. I say that sometimes as if, like everyone would know.
April Snow: 16:03
I do the same yeah.
Dr. Danica Harris: 16:05
Yeah. So I think I like to think of it, you know, when we put it in conjunction with like top down and bottom up sorts of types of healing. So top down, from the head down, we're working with cognitions, we're working in a more logical or concrete domain. I always think the top down stuff is really really good for, like, I need to check something off my to-do list or I need, like task completion.
April Snow: 16:28
Logistical.
Dr. Danica Harris: 16:29
Yeah, something where there's an actual solution, like a tangible I can do this one thing and this is the outcome the bottom up, rather, works literally from the bottom up into the body, and so we're really acknowledging that, yes, the brain has an experience of you and what happened and your memories and all of that, but that trauma and activation and all of that is stored in the body, and so we have to be in conversation with the body in order to heal some of these trauma responses that we're holding or some of the incomplete trauma releases that we didn't get to have.
April Snow: 17:04
What does a trauma release look like?
Dr. Danica Harris: 17:07
It can look like so many things. I often when I'm working with clients, so I tend to work with folks who experience high activation, meaning that just kind of their entire life experience is they're living above their window of tolerance. Meaning they may be quicker to anxiety, quicker to the physiological response in their chest of like their heart racing or they might feel like they panic sometimes and you know, it's not to say that they're not necessarily having that experience, but just kind of like they're quicker to be flooded, overwhelmed, activated.
April Snow: 17:41
Got it, yep.
Dr. Danica Harris: 17:42
And so for those folks, when I think about a trauma release or like having them complete a trauma response, I'm wanting to help them reach a kind of a state of catharsis around, like an incomplete fight, response or flight response, you get to actually move your body in the way it originally wanted to respond yes, yes, yeah, right, because we see that in nature, right, animals will shake it off and then they're fine.
April Snow: 18:06
Animals do not get PTSD when they're allowed to have their natural cycle Right or a traumatic event.
Dr. Danica Harris: 18:13
Right.
April Snow: 18:14
So you're helping people do that like release that energy from the body.
Dr. Danica Harris: 18:18
Yes, that's the goal, and I think, if we, you know, the body goes into a shutdown and we're experiencing trauma, right. So it's like, well, I'm doing what I have to do to survive and then, we just redo that pattern over and over.
Dr. Danica Harris: 18:28
So then it, you know, it becomes the case where people will be having a full blown trauma response to a very ordinary, yet stressful but ordinary situation. And if we can begin to release some of that held trauma or those trauma responses, then the body can reorient and begin to actually have what I would consider like measured and proportionate responses to the hearing.
April Snow: 18:53
Right, you're not constantly trying to fight, holding that dam up.
Dr. Danica Harris: 18:56
Yes.
April Snow: 18:57
Yes, how exhausting that is.
Dr. Danica Harris: 19:00
So exhausting.
April Snow: 19:01
And it keeps you to have to keep disconnected from yourself, right, and that's comes at a high cost. Can we tease apart a little bit? This is something I've been trying to make sense of for myself, just somatically. So we have, you know, the impact of trauma on the body and the nervous system, but then we have, as an HSP, we have that heightened overwhelm and stress. Do they show up the same? Are they different in how they present? What have you seen?
Dr. Danica Harris: 19:26
Yeah, I'm like, ooh, that's a really good question, cause they seem like the same flavor. Yes, right, yeah, maybe intensity is what differentiating factor for me in that Like and yeah, okay, now I'm thinking about like some of the clinical work I've done and kind of manifested and really helping clients to discern the difference between like what is overwhelmed, that is like normative for you and your body Right, right. And then what is a trauma response? That? You're having and I do. I think they can look maybe the same for some people very, very similar.
April Snow: 20:04
Yeah.
Dr. Danica Harris: 20:05
I also think some of it's about, like, the ability to like. If I were to change something in my environment, does that change the outcome? Or if I'm more resourced, does that change the outcome? That might be something I would think about. Like if, like, as a highly sensitive person, I know that I'm quicker to overwhelm when I'm not rested, yes, but a trauma response might come up, indicative of whether I'm rested or not, if the circumstance was triggering Absolutely.
April Snow: 20:36
I think that's a good tell for HSPs in a lot of different ways that we can present as having trauma, as experiencing ADHD, a lot of other pieces, or just being generally emotionally dysregulated and we get stuck in those states because we're not resourcing, we're not able to take the stress levels down and that can start to look like other things 100% when it's unchecked. Yeah, how do we start to resource? I know we talked about the basics, but if I'm starting from scratch, what does that look like to start resourcing?
Dr. Danica Harris: 21:14
One of the things that I learned in my somatic experiencing training is like a prompt you might ask someone when you're engaging in some of this initial somatic work would be something like in the last week, or you could say the last three days, tell me about a time when you felt the most like yourself. And what I find is and I'm sure you experienced this too a lot of people don't really know their self, like about that, and like capital S self, like who am I actually? And not only like who am I, but like have I ever been in touch with that me? And so I think like helping people to kind of bridge the gap between I don't know who I am and like I don't exist. Yeah, because I think we, of course we do exist, and so there's probably some knowing we all have about ourselves at the outset of this process or journey that we just haven't named as a part of us yet. And so I think helping someone to know or see, like when you think of who you are, what is one, even if you can come up with only one factor, like you know, how did you know that? You felt more like yourself yesterday at 2pm and you know the rest of the days this week and, I think, helping to vivify that. So any bit of knowing they do have. I want to lean into that knowing and I want to know how do they know that? What cues are they getting from their body? What is their brain telling them, you know?
Dr. Danica Harris: 22:38
Another kind of function of somatic experience and work is looking at like so not just the sensations and the thoughts, but also memories that come up, internal behaviors in the body or reactions in the body, images that come to mind, and so I'm really in an emotions, of course. I'm really looking to like what piece of that is the person most have most readily available? And can we like vivify that enough to help them establish a sense of self? And I think that sense of self, along with tending to some of these basic needs, then it's like to me we have this ability to be like very, very curious. And what else if we, if we stacked on top of like well, you've got to drink water and you have to eat food, what's the very next thing? And it might be, you know, a comfort need, it might be something around scheduling, you know, but I think we have to get curious about who the person is and who the self is, so that we know what works for you differently than what works for me.
April Snow: 23:35
I love that, like spending time with yourself, getting to know yourself again if you've felt disconnected. And it sounds like there's so many options. And I just think how well an HSP is suited to do this work, this introspective healing work. Having such a vivid emotional landscape, creativity you know dream life create, you know all the different pieces, it could be really rich work for an HSP.
Dr. Danica Harris: 24:02
Yeah, and I think that's where I feel very lucky to be a highly sensitive person myself and to get to work with so many folks who are highly sensitive, because we can be so creative. Sometimes clients will bring in an image that they saw or a song that really spoke to them. Now we went from having nothing to having a tangible thing Right, and we can work with the tangible thing. It's like any point can be an entry point. We just need something to start and especially if it's like something organic coming from the client and there's something they maybe can't even pinpoint it, but I relate to this or I connect with this, it's like perfect, there we go. Now we have some place to start, and from there I actually do think we can begin to get so curious about ourselves and so interested in ourselves that it's like, oh well, actually I do know what some of my preferences are and I do know what some of my needs are and I do know about how I can show up and maybe how I can't show up in connection with others.
April Snow: 24:59
Yes. What are my preferences, what are my needs? We often are so oriented outward. Yeah, I'm constantly reminding my clients let's turn that compass back inward. What do you need? Because we really cannot gauge based on what other people are doing. Do you find that folks get resistant to that part of the work of turning it back inward?
Dr. Danica Harris: 25:20
For sure. I think it's threatening for those of us who have experienced childhood trauma. It's so scary, it's so risky to like if I go inward, will I survive Right? Will I be able to see danger coming if it comes? You know, and I think one of the things I'm always reminding clients of is like these coping skills you developed are like fine tuned over time, and us adding a new way of existing is not actually a threat to this well-developed, well-earned way of existing. We're just trying to broaden not take away.
Dr. Danica Harris: 25:58
So we can trust this person to suss out the world. But maybe we'll actually suss out the world a little bit more accurately to our current context if we include us in the story.
April Snow: 26:09
Include yourself in the story. I love that so much. Yeah, as we're doing this work, I'm curious about I'm just thinking about how HSPs tend to move more slowly. So, yes, we have a rich in our life, but because we feel so deeply and we need more time to process, is it better to be able to move more slowly or give yourself permission to have this process look differently than maybe it would with someone else?
Dr. Danica Harris: 26:34
Yeah, I think so and I would say that's true whether someone, when I think about it from a complex trauma perspective, one of the gifts we need is time and space.
April Snow: 26:43
Yes.
Dr. Danica Harris: 26:44
Because, when we were experiencing trauma, that those were the two things or two of the things that were lacking right. We did not have time, we did not have space. And so being able to just trust that like, wow, our journey is going to be what it is and we don't actually need to put a timeframe on it and we can't measure it against someone else. And, you know, it's like one session where there's insight. That could be the journey, or it could be five years.
Dr. Danica Harris: 27:10
And one isn't like better or worse than the other, but the goal is always like increased knowing and, I think, increased gentleness with self.
April Snow: 27:18
Yeah, coming back to that softness, that gentleness which you said, that's been so pivotal for you in your personal life or in your personal journey. But it's true, we need more of that. I hear a lot of HSPs talking about that desire to slow down. I mean, a lot of people need that these days, especially us, to have time to go into your internal world. I'm just curious if we could expand upon that. When you're creating time and space for yourself, what could that look like if you're doing it on your own versus maybe with a practitioner?
Dr. Danica Harris: 27:49
Well, immediately when you asked that, a thought that came up for me is, around boundaries, like time and space boundaries and relationships, you know. So, like if we are in connection with someone who maybe processes quicker or just doesn't need separate time to process, there might be this like sense of urgency inside of us to be responsive, or maybe even from the other person right, they could project it onto us and I think, getting comfortable with asking for what you need. So I hear you and I want to be responsive and I need some time to process and being okay with that. And of course, there will be people in our lives who don't like that or don't respond well to that and someone else's response to us having that need isn't actually our problem.
April Snow: 28:36
Let's say it again.
Dr. Danica Harris: 28:39
And I know that's hard. I mean, even as I say it, I'm like, oh yeah, right, when you're in relationship, it feels like it's your problem. Yes, and I think, in order to be well resourced, we cannot always and really shouldn't as a practice take on other people's needs and projections. We can hear them, we can validate them, we can say I hear you have a need for a response from me and I want to be responsive and I need a few minutes, and it's like all of that can actually exist at the same time.
April Snow: 29:07
Absolutely Right. Everyone's needs are important. Yeah, right, and it's helpful to communicate. I hear you, I want to be there for you and here's what I need to. Can we find a compromise?
Dr. Danica Harris: 29:20
Yeah, yeah, and we might not be able to get all the time and space that we need in all instances. Again, like you said, there's not. We can't change everything, but, man, I think of it as, like, where are degrees of freedom? Like if I can get a little bit of softening in one area, or if I can create some space for myself in one domain of my life, I'm probably going to be able to show up with a little less flexibility elsewhere.
April Snow: 29:45
Yeah, coming back to that of looking at the big picture, yeah, right, and I love that. Degrees of freedom. If I can't get it here, maybe I'll get it over here and then it balances out, hopefully overall. Yeah, I'm curious for yourself what are some of your favorite ways to get more freedom? Create more space to yourself, take care of your own nervous system yes, what does that look like?
Dr. Danica Harris: 30:14
I'm excited to share those because I feel like it's a state in my life where like this is something I think about a lot. Yeah, something that's very important to me is to have my coffee in the morning in a very particular way. So it's like I do my normal get up, get ready stuff pretty quickly and then it's coffee time for me.
April Snow: 30:24
Yes.
Dr. Danica Harris: 30:25
And I often write in the morning. So I like to write kind of casually, whether it's like for content or just for myself, but I try not to jump right into work. I try to do a little bit of writing, drink my coffee. Sometimes I'll like text message with some friends. You know I like that slow start, no matter what time. My first client is, and I'm a morning person, so I like an 8 or 9 am client, so I just make sure that I've got the time in the morning to do that. And so, thinking about like creating space, I feel like I create energetic space. Even when I don't necessarily have all the time, I think I have this idea in my mind. I'm like I'd love two hours of freedom, but that doesn't always work, and so I just make sure that the time I do have is I use it in the way I need it.
April Snow: 31:09
So it feels like a sense of freedom, even if it's not as spacious or as long as you'd like it to. Is that a mindset piece? How do you bring in that kind of spacious energy without actually having the time Some?
Dr. Danica Harris: 31:21
of it's like boundaries of myself, for sure.
Dr. Danica Harris: 31:24
Yeah, because I consider myself a recovering perfectionist. I'm an oldest daughter high achiever, you know. I think those of us that have graduate degrees like there's got to be some level of perfectionism to do that and achieve all of that. And so I think for myself, there are times where I'm like, oh well, my to-do list is long and I'm up and I could just get working at like 6.05. Yes, and again, there are certain days I have to negotiate with myself like, okay, well, if you work a little bit now, does that alleviate some stress later? And like, maybe the answer that day is yes.
Dr. Danica Harris: 31:58
But for the most part I have this negotiated thing with myself where I'm like, oh, I noticed the urge coming up inside of me to get right to work, Because that is a well-earned pattern in my system. And simultaneously, I know me, I love morning coffee, chill, with like just a little bit of writing and some text messaging some friends in my PJs, Like I love that, it feels good to me. I feel like myself in those moments and I'll kind of think about it to myself like, well, I don't want to take away from me the thing I enjoy. I have control over that. And if I'm not tending to me. I'm not going to be well-boundaried with other people if they're not tending to me.
April Snow: 32:41
Absolutely. You have to set the precedent. Tend to yourself first. Yes, I really appreciate that. That's something I've been trying to do as well is start the morning with something. For me I really appreciate that. That's something I've been trying to do as well is start the morning with something for me, because if you don't do it then it easily unravels. I'm also eldest daughter perfectionist, so the to-do list is always long. It's a very ambitious to-do list, so it's easy to say, oh, but if I could just use this hour for something else. But then what's the cost of that down the road, not just that day, but that week, that month, that year. And I love just taking a moment to remind yourself how much you enjoy this coffee time and how much you don't want to miss it. That emotional connection, I think, is enough to probably pull you forward into it.
Dr. Danica Harris: 33:21
Yeah, and then when I do, you know, it's like any of the conflict that comes up inside of me, around it, it settles pretty quickly. So I'm like, no, I'm actually just enjoying the coffee and I'll get to my to-do list. And what another thing I know to be true is the to-do list will always be there. There will always be things on it. There will almost never be a sense of full completion for me, and so I have just also gotten pretty comfortable and that that's been a hard one, but I've been pretty comfortable with knowing at the end of the week I will still have things on the to-do list that have to go on into next week, and the world around me isn't going to end for that reason.
April Snow: 33:54
That's right. The to-do list isn't changing. It's never completed. So why not take this time for yourself? Because what do you personally receive when you take that hour versus when you don't?
Dr. Danica Harris: 34:06
I think you know you said like starting the day that way, like I think for me it encourages slowness in the morning, which I need. Again, my system it's ready to go and so.
Dr. Danica Harris: 34:15
I need to remind my system hey, we can do this differently. So I think it slows me down, which then, I think, makes me better resource to sit with clients, so I think I'm more available to them. I think I'm a better practitioner for that reason and like also a complete human at the end of the day. You know, when the pandemic first started, this was not something I had well negotiated, because my whole schedule got flipped, like everything was different, and so I found myself at the end of the day I mean, I don't think I was a person, I don't know what kind of shell it's like. Everything I had in me got used up and I was so available to the last drop of the last session, and then the minute that session ended, it was like who's Danica? What is she?
April Snow: 34:56
Right, you're gone. Yeah, empty. It's true, everything got so murky and there was so much support. That needed to happen and it was easy to. I mean, we'd never been through something like that before, so there was no roadmap for it.
Dr. Danica Harris: 35:13
Right.
April Snow: 35:13
But you got to see what happens when you completely give everything away.
Dr. Danica Harris: 35:17
Yeah, it was very eyeopening to me and I think you know, a couple months in I had to really look at like what, okay, what can I change right now? And one of the things I changed that was my decision to leave academia, because I was teaching and also in private practice and I was like one of these has to go.
Dr. Danica Harris: 35:33
This doesn't actually balance anymore and then from there it was okay. I can do my schedule like this for six months and then, oh, it's time for another schedule change. I actually don't want to see folks at six or seven o'clock at night. That's too late for me. I'm a morning person. Let's start earlier. But again, that was evolving kind of over time and I think because I allowed myself to see what was happening for me, then I could respond to myself appropriately.
April Snow: 36:00
Right, you're just figuring out who you are, what you need and then adjusting, and it's really important to honor our rhythms, whether you're a morning person, you're a night person. Can we align with that rhythm instead of trying to force ourselves into a box somehow?
Dr. Danica Harris: 36:15
Yeah.
April Snow: 36:16
Yeah.
Dr. Danica Harris: 36:17
We talk about that a lot in our team. We have at our group practice. We have there's 14 of us that see clients and there's like a definite split, like some of us are like I would love to see a 730 or 8 am. Some folks are like I don't want to see my first client until 10 or 11.
April Snow: 36:33
Yes.
Dr. Danica Harris: 36:33
And I think we're fortunate enough in our environment where we can make space for that, you know. So then, essentially we're seeing across the practice people from maybe as early as 7 am to like 8 or 9 pm, sometimes Right and like we have just figured out a way, collectively, to make that work. And I think for folks who don't have that kind of flexibility in a work environment, maybe they think about it. With energy I give, if I'm more of an afternoon person or evening person, maybe there's a way for me to approach the beginning of the day in a more comfortable or slower pace way that doesn't like tire me out at a time when I'm already less resourced.
April Snow: 37:10
Right. It sounds like a win-win for everyone. The clinicians get to show up when they're at their freshest, they get to go at their own pace, and you also get to offer a much wider range of services across the day. I feel like that's a great metaphor for anything, whether it's HSPs and non-HSPs, introverts and extroverts if we can just highlight that we all bring something different and it all works together to form a full puzzle.
Dr. Danica Harris: 37:34
Yeah, don't you wish like work environments would look at it that way.
April Snow: 37:39
I really do, because it would benefit everyone.
Dr. Danica Harris: 37:43
Yeah, it really would and it would take away some of the stigma. I think that so many work environments are set up and I identify as an extrovert, but I think so many work environments are set up for extroverts and just like I think about my couple of my very close friends who are introverted, highly sensitive, have a complex trauma history and I just think, like my goodness, there's not one environment set up for you.
April Snow: 38:05
Exactly Right, there's really not, but there needs to be. Yeah, yeah, it's. When you said you're an extra, I'm like, oh, that's why that morning connection, being able to text friends, is so important. Yeah, right, just having that to meet that need. And I imagine you might not feel as fulfilled or energized if you didn't get that time. Yeah, that's a good point If you went right into work.
Dr. Danica Harris: 38:29
Yeah, if I don't have that, like if folks aren't available or if I do have to jump right into work or something I do, I feel like the sadness that comes up, or almost like a little longing for them that I'm like, no. I wanna know where my people are and what they're doing.
Dr. Danica Harris: 38:43
Yeah, absolutely, if you can leave us with a final message for HSPs who are maybe wanting to start making time and space for themselves or start reconnecting with their inner experience. What would that be? That, whatever your needs are, they are real and you deserve to have them met, first and foremost, by yourself.
April Snow: 39:07
I love that. That's right. You deserve it.
Dr. Danica Harris: 39:14
Everybody does. We really are like. Survival relies on us to show up for ourselves in these ways.
April Snow: 39:17
It does. Yeah, thank you. Well, danica, before we wrap up, was there anything else that you wanted to share that we didn't get to?
Dr. Danica Harris: 39:24
No, I think this is great.
April Snow: 39:26
Wonderful, so I will. I want to thank you so much for being here, for just opening up this conversation. I think it's such an important one to include our physical internal experience and our healing work and just in our awareness, making time for that as well. Coming back home to ourselves is so important as HSPs, so I'll be sure to share your website, your Instagram and your retreat in the show notes your Healing your Way Home retreat. Could you share with folks a little bit more about what that is?
Dr. Danica Harris: 39:52
Oh my gosh, it's like my life's work passion project.
Dr. Danica Harris: 39:55
Yeah, I love group healing spaces and you know I said being an extrovert but I think a big part of that is just comes from many years of doing group therapy and lots of education and really just seeing like the value of people One being in connection with others who have a similar lived experience, but then to like being able to hear from and bounce ideas off one another in a way that like helps to normalize and validate like oh, I struggle with this and I'm not alone, cause I think so many of us feel alone in our struggles, whether we're highly sensitive or we're a complex trauma survivor or both.
Dr. Danica Harris: 40:32
So to me, having that space where folks are coming together and it's just like a given, everyone knows like I'm going to be met and understood here and we did two of the retreats last year and we got to really see folks, their nervous system, their being like settles in by day two and I just feel like we have more access to really really do some nervous system work when folks are outside of the kind of hustle and bustle and demand of their everyday life.
Dr. Danica Harris: 40:58
And because Brittany, maronna, kay and I, who hosted, are all HSPs ourselves, we can really tend to the environment in a thoughtful way and, as folks have shared like, oh, I would really need this or that we have a completely non-judgmental and open approach to making accommodations as we can so that it actually feels like a nurturing and safe environment for people to access themselves and do that nervous system work.
April Snow: 41:20
Oh, it's so incredible. I mean, community is important for HSPs, but that co-regulation piece having a safe space where your nervous system can just start to unwind and feel safe and I can attest to just the healing ability of retreat spaces, especially being held by clinicians is just really powerful. So, yeah, I'm so happy that you're offering this resource. It's such a needed one, especially coming out of the pandemic when there haven't been as many of those offerings. So, yeah, I'm excited to share it with folks. Thank you so much for that. Thanks so much for joining me and Danica for today's conversation. I hope it will inspire you to find small ways to care for yourself and start to answer your body's basic needs, especially first thing in the morning, before you touch your to-do list or think about what other people need.
April Snow: 42:14
If you're wanting to get back in your body after a period of overwhelm or trauma, Danica has several resources that may be helpful, including individual somatic coaching and a movement and meditation group that meets online. You can find links to both of these in the show notes or go to TheEmptherapistcom. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind-the-scenes content and more HSP resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
